Camera 2025

[Rhood]

Yes another camera topic!

Looking for some opinions and thoughts. It's been a while since I looked into other camera's.
There's a documentary project that might come up, and I wanted to anticipate. At first I thought just going with my Fuji XT3 as usual.
But since it seems to be back a bigger project than usual I started to think and look what's on the (used) market.
(It's been a patch of smaller projects the last few years, used to have a F35 or rent Alexa for bigger projects)
Documentary doesn't mean that it's going to be run and gun style. Mainly just a lot smaller crew than fiction project.
What I'm looking for (and probably everyone):
Alexa in a small boxy form factor with internal ND 🙃
Also I think it's the internal ND that started me thinking, since I use single filters in matte box right now.

What I came across:

Sony FS7 MKI and MKII and FS5 MKI and MKII

Rented the FS7 a couple of times years ago for various projects. Was never really fond of the camera.
But that's also because I compared it to the price tag.
Now it's at such low prices that I might consider those it.
Main dislikes: menu system, more ettr style than others (not like Alexa), screen, form factor, extra unit at the back makes it very weird
Pro's: Pretty lightweight, Image is ok (not blown away, but ok)

Canon C70

Never used this camera.
It's pretty high on the dynamic range database? But are those numbers correct?
Main dislikes: a bit more expensive
Pro's: Lightweight, interesting form factor (except the top handle)

What I'm currently also considering:

Fuji XH2S (Or XM5 according to dynamic range database has more stops?!?)

Same mount/eco system/adapters as Fuji XT3
A bit more video dedicated. 
Know I can use autofocus if I really need it. (seldomly)
Also XT3 can be used as B-Cam 🤓
Main dislikes: No internal ND, (probably audio 🤷‍♂️)
Pro's: Lightweight, lens mount/eco system, not the best form factor but my current rig mostly solves this
 

Currently the FS7 seems most tempting, because of the price (1.5 to 2K for a package).
 

Yes I know I can rent, and I might just do that. But interested in hearing your thoughts. 
Also feel free to point me to interesting comparisons (and  interesting options I probably missed).

[eatstoomuchjam]

The C70 does have some of the highest DR of any shipping camera - it's a DGO sensor.  If highest dynamic range is your deciding factor, you won't find many cameras under $10k to match it.

Is your project run and gun which is why you want the internal ND - for super fast changes?

Some other options for "internal" ND:

- Use EF or PL lenses on an RF mount camera and use a converter with swappable inline ND (such as Canon's EF-RF adapter)

- If you don't need it to be on a button and just don't want to deal with front filters, look into a rear clip-in filter - they are available for many cameras and in my experience, work well.

 

[QuickHitRecord]

I've shot quite a bit with the FS7 and extensively with the C70 (I currently own two). I'd say that the C70 is definitely worth the extra money. It's smaller, more intuitive, has great autofocus, better color, impressive dynamic range, and is remarkably clean in low light. I like mine so much that I really haven't been tempted by the C80 or C400.

Plus, using the Arri LogC to Rec709 on CLOG2 footage is a nice starting point for a grade.

But I suppose it really comes down to the lenses that you already own.

[Benjamin Hilton]

Yeah I'd have to say that while I love the form factor of the FS7, there is a huge leap in mojo from that generation of imaging to the next with the C70, A7SIII and so forth. It's just a richer cleaner image overall

[ArashM]

Another vote for the C70, I love the image and while it's not to everyones liking I do like the body/design as well.

I picked up a XH2s just before the holiday, can't say I've gotten along with it.

good luck

[MurtlandPhoto]

20 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

Yeah I'd have to say that while I love the form factor of the FS7, there is a huge leap in mojo from that generation of imaging to the next with the C70, A7SIII and so forth. It's just a richer cleaner image overall

Agreed. I recently bought an FS7ii and despite how great the ergonomics are, I just wasn’t happy with the image no matter what I did. I’m spoiled by the current generation of cameras.

[Django]

I love the IQ of my FS7. Nice chunky 4K 10-bit XAVC-S. You can bake in LUTs. I really don't see much difference in specs to the current Sony cams (FX30, FX3, FX6 etc) aside for extreme low-light. Ergonomics are great for shoulder mount, its a workhorse. I keep mine because Sony is used everywhere in pro use and it gives me work. Don't really feel a need to upgrade. That being said for personal hybrid projects I prefer Canon/Nikon. I'd recommend R5C or Z8 if you're a hybrid shooter. Personally I'm thinking of going for R5 mk2 mainly because of Clog2 and tiny bitrate SRAW, total game changer. Guess a C70 would be a good cop, great form factor with NDs and long battery life with that DGO sensor, only caveat is the image is a little too soft for my taste.

[Benjamin Hilton]

23 hours ago, Django said:

I love the IQ of my FS7. Nice chunky 4K 10-bit XAVC-S. You can bake in LUTs. I really don't see much difference in specs to the current Sony cams (FX30, FX3, FX6 etc) aside for extreme low-light. Ergonomics are great for shoulder mount, its a workhorse. I keep mine because Sony is used everywhere in pro use and it gives me work. Don't really feel a need to upgrade. That being said for personal hybrid projects I prefer Canon/Nikon. I'd recommend R5C or Z8 if you're a hybrid shooter. Personally I'm thinking of going for R5 mk2 mainly because of Clog2 and tiny bitrate SRAW, total game changer. Guess a C70 would be a good cop, great form factor with NDs and long battery life with that DGO sensor, only caveat is the image is a little too soft for my taste.

There's not that much of a specs difference, just a better image out of the newer censors. Granted with the chunky files from the FS7 a good colorist can make it look really good, it's just if you do a basic comparison between the two generations with limited grading you see a significant difference. 

[IronFilm]

On 1/31/2025 at 2:59 AM, Rhood said:

Alexa in a small boxy form factor with internal ND 🙃

Why not a Sony F5 or F55? 

They're going crazy cheap these days. And a lot more suitable for ultra small crews than an ARRI is going to be. 

"Boxy form factor" also screams out: Red Komodo (the OG, the X version I guess it outside your budget. Or maybe the Komdo X isn't? Is only a moderate stretch more expensive than a C70), or Z Cam E2 (either the MFT or S35 or FF versions), or Panasonic BS1H, or Blackmagic PYXIS. 

If a C70 is within your budget, then probably a Sony FX6 would be as well, that FX6 should be top of your list to consider. 

Fuji XH2S and XM5 are also good answers if you wish to go with ultra low budget, while keeping the same lens systems as your X-T3 (plus the X-T3 will make for a great B Cam to your A Cam!)

[Django]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

There's not that much of a specs difference, just a better image out of the newer censors. Granted with the chunky files from the FS7 a good colorist can make it look really good, it's just if you do a basic comparison between the two generations with limited grading you see a significant difference. 

Main difference is sensor size. FS7 is S35 and FX3/FX6 are FF. The FX3/FX6 sensor is also that 12MP A7S3 sensor so its got that second base 12,800 ISO for extreme low light. Personally I prefer a lower second base ISO but YMMV. Rolling shutter is also excellent on those FF sensors.

Those things aside the image will grade the same and there is no bump in resolution or codec quality, actually you'll get a sharper image from the S35 sensor of the FX30 as it downscales from 6K. FX30 is probably the best bang for buck cine camera in the current Sony roster.

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

f a C70 is within your budget, then probably a Sony FX6 would be as well, that FX6 should be top of your list to consider. 

C70's currently sell used for as low as 2500€. Lowest I've seen an FX6 is 4900€ so about double the price. Sony will soon release FX3 mk2 and possibly FX6 mk2. That's when those cameras will lower in price. They are still very in demand right now so holding their value quite well (as did the FS7 before being replaced by the FX line).

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Django said:

as did the FS7 before being replaced by the FX line

Am surprised how rapidly FS7 has since dropped in value after the FX6 etc came out. 

Sadly, because I have a FS7 😞 Worth a fraction of what I paid for it. 

[Ty Harper]

For hybrid cams it's really worth looking into the R5C imo. Almost all of the early issues (including battery life) have been addressed. You can now do 8K RAW internal w/o the need for an external power source. And recently Canon added a teleconverter (with 1.5x, 2x, 2.5x and 3x magnification) feature that is another f*ckin' gamechanger. I can now walk with my trusty old Canon 17-55 f2.8 EF-S and have focal coverage that goes from 27mm to a whopping 264mm if necessary AND the IQ is so good (as long as you are gving it a lot of light). Or clap on my 40mm pancake knowing I got coverage - not just up to 3x mag - but I can also put it in S35 mode and add another 1.6x on top of that! I now have two of these cams with no regrets - so yeah, I'd highly recommend looking into a used R5C, which can be had for $2500 USD in my neck of the woods (Toronto). 

[Rhood]

Thank you for the opinions!

I'm gonna stick around with my XT3 and look for a used XH2S.

 

I can start a new topic for this but don't want to bloat the forum with topics.
Also looking at some used monitors.
I have a SmallHD 501, the button is a bit janky. So I thought buying a back-up one (or keep the 501 as a back-up).
Options I have considered.
• Buy a second 501 (but it's not daylight viewable)
• Buy a SmallHD Focus 5 (claimed to be daylight viewable, but is it at 800 nits? The no loop through is ok, but I can imagine a situation where it is not)
• Portkeys BM5 II or III (a bit more expensive than the previous two, menu not great)
• Blackmagic Video Assist 12G (Even more expensive)
• Atomos Shinobi II (Priced between the focus and the portkeys, some people rave about it some people trash it...)

Anybody who has had their hands on any of these?
Right now leaning towards the Focus 5. Used to SmallHD OS but also their screens.
Things I sometimes use (apart from framing and trusting it for exposure and colors with custom LUTS) waveform, false color, peaking, anamorphic desqueeze.

Thanks!

[QuickHitRecord]

I have a Focus 5 OLED. Nice colors and 1080P (vs 720P on the original Focus, which is brighter). And you can upgrade the firmware to take advantage of the EL Zone exposure tool. Once you've used that, you'll never want to bother with any other exposure tools.

I also have the SmallHD Indie 5, which checks ALL of the boxes for me. If you can stomach the price or maybe wait for a sale, I see no reason why it would not be the last monitor you'll ever buy.

[Benjamin Hilton]

I've had the Focus 5, it's not a bad monitor. The Desview R6 is a really good option too. I believe it's 2800 nits, which is insane. It looks so good outdoors even in bright sunlight. Only downside is it is really cheap ($230 I think?) so quality control isn't always so good. But that being said, at the price you can just buy a few of them and cycle through when they break

[Rhood]

Thanks for chiming in guys!

3 hours ago, QuickHitRecord said:

And you can upgrade the firmware to take advantage of the EL Zone exposure tool

Can the 501 and the Focus 5 (non OLED) also be updated to use EL Zone?

43 minutes ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

The Desview R6 is a really good option too.

Really?
I read a somewhere on a forum that the quality of the screen was really bad. Like looking at an old monitor.
Or is that what you mean with quality control? 
How would you rate the Desview against the Focus 5?

[QuickHitRecord]

1 hour ago, Rhood said:

Can the 501 and the Focus 5 (non OLED) also be updated to use EL Zone?

There is a list of models compatible with PageOS 5 (which introduces EL Zone) on SmallHD's website. If memory serves, the 510 cannot be upgraded to 5, but the FOCUS monitors can.

[eatstoomuchjam]

Do you have a goal of recording in braw?  I have the VA 12G (both a 5" and a 7") and it's a good screen, but it won't stand out vs a lot of others unless you want to use it as a recorder as well.

As for the rest, if you like SmallHD and you're familiar with their menus, and if they cost less than PortKeys, I'd just do that.

 

And if you can avoid it, just don't buy anything at all from Atomos.  They're a garbage company.

[Rhood]

57 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Do you have a goal of recording in braw?  I have the VA 12G (both a 5" and a 7") and it's a good screen, but it won't stand out vs a lot of others unless you want to use it as a recorder as well.

Not at this moment.

Can anybody confirm the SmallHD Focus is daylight viewable at 800 nits?

Currently it's between the Portkeys BM5III or the Focus. Anybody who has had both in hand?

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, Rhood said:

I can start a new topic for this but don't want to bloat the forum with topics.
Also looking at some used monitors.
I have a SmallHD 501, the button is a bit janky. So I thought buying a back-up one (or keep the 501 as a back-up).
Options I have considered.
• Buy a second 501 (but it's not daylight viewable)
• Buy a SmallHD Focus 5 (claimed to be daylight viewable, but is it at 800 nits? The no loop through is ok, but I can imagine a situation where it is not)
• Portkeys BM5 II or III (a bit more expensive than the previous two, menu not great)
• Blackmagic Video Assist 12G (Even more expensive)
• Atomos Shinobi II (Priced between the focus and the portkeys, some people rave about it some people trash it...)

Right now, I think the very best camera monitor (if you don't need a recorder) on a low budget is the Viltrox DC-X3 (or DC-X2 if you don't care about SDI), which is super cheap on Aliexpress. I'd take this over anything you mentioned.