Ursa Cine 12K now available as camera body only with option for recording to dual CF Express for only $7,000

[eatstoomuchjam]

It looks like today (or very recently, if not today), BMD announced a body-only version of the cine 12k for $7,000.  This camera just became a whole lot more interesting (and I'm now thinking about what I could sell/trade in toward one).

Compared with the $15k kit, it excludes the top handle, baseplate, power supply, battery plate and PL lens mount.  It also omits the 8tb BMD storage device for a module with dual CF Express slots.  It ships with an EF mount (which I think is just great, given how many of my lenses are EF).

Suddenly, the Ursa Cine 12K just became a lot more interesting to me.  I doubt that the dual CFE module can record in all (or even any?) of the 12k modes at any of the higher quality settings... but I'm even more doubtful that 12k is really that important to me (and a lot of other things about the UM12K are really interesting).

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursacine

[Mr. Freeze]

Yeah, I saw that as well. Intersting decision, but a great deal for someone looking for those features. Even if you add the BMD Media Module with 8TB, still a great price for a very potent Camera.

[eatstoomuchjam]

Yeah.  The price is kind of crazy - adding back all the stuff that isn't included doesn't seem to equal the price difference.  It seems like there must be something else going on.

Battery plate - $99
PL mount - $395
Top handle - $199
Media module - $1,695
Base plate + power supply - prices not currently shown, but apparently about $5,600?

Even if the normal kit included the media dock (about $2,000) it doesn't all add up.  

[KnightsFan]

I saw that! What a deal--priced under the C400 even.

I wouldn't be surprised if the kits come down in price to match.

[KnightsFan]

I'll put my conspiracy hat on for a moment. Maybe BM knows about imminent competition, and want to get a few more sales out before that happens?

[MurtlandPhoto]

There’s been a few instances of Blackmagic doing a large price drop seemingly completely out of the blue. Their official reason has always been that they lower the sticker price when their cost of manufacturing drops, whether by economies of scale or something else. No idea if it’s true, but they’ve done this type of thing before and I love it.

 

P.S. They also have marginally raised prices on things recently due to supply chain shortages where many other manufacturers haven’t. To me, that points to some truth that they have strict profit margins to maintain without much wiggle room.

[IronFilm]

On 2/1/2025 at 10:49 AM, eatstoomuchjam said:

Yeah.  The price is kind of crazy - adding back all the stuff that isn't included doesn't seem to equal the price difference.  It seems like there must be something else going on.

Blackmagic made a bold attempt to appeal to the mid-market that sadly kinda doesn't exist. 

It's exceptionally hard in 2025 to sell any non-ARRI camera in any price bracket that's above US$10K. 

Sony with the VENICE is the only one who has been successful. 

RED kinda has their little niche. 

Panasonic? Gone. 

Canon? Only their sub $10K cameras are successful-ish.

Thus BMD made the decision to move their price back down into the sub $10K region, where I suspect/hope they'll find a lot more success. 

The URSA Cine 12K LF still has very high media costs, however there are ways to work around that, you could for instance record most formats directly to a connected USB drive over USB-C (like you can do with most other BMD cameras). 

  

On 2/2/2025 at 12:44 AM, MurtlandPhoto said:

but they’ve done this type of thing before and I love it.

Love how I got my OG BMPCC back in the day when it went on sale for just US$500! (plus the NZD was strong then too against the USD than it is today)

[eatstoomuchjam]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

The URSA Cine 12K LF still has very high media costs, however there are ways to work around that, you could for instance record most formats directly to a connected USB drive over USB-C (like you can do with most other BMD cameras). 

The $7k version comes with a dual CF Express Type B module.  That'd make its media costs no higher than most of my other current cameras.  And sort of "free" since I have like 4-5T of decent CF Express B cards around.  If recording to SSD is supported, even better.  I have some of them too.  😉

[BTM_Pix]

There is no support (currently at least) for USB-C recording on the Ursa Cine 12K.

The situation for CF Express Type B has been clarified by BM on their latest support bulletin here for approved cards :

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/support/faq/59051

Long story short is that they have nothing on there that goes above 45fps at 12:K 3:2 BRAW 8:1.

There is a data calculator on the product page for the different permutations.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/products/blackmagicursacine

However, there is also the caveat that for any frame rate above 60fps (at any resolution) the camera requires powering from a 24.8v B-Mount battery.

So for anyone looking at shooting at the highest frame rates and resolutions, both the Media Module and a B-Mount are non-negotiable so an additional £2K should be budgeted.

That is still an almighty good deal for a camera with this performance though and I think the value proposition of the Media Module is good enough to mean it might well be considered an essential purchase by a lot of people anyway.

One thing that I find intriguing is that BM list a mount adapter for Hasselblad HC lenses but offer no more information about it at the moment.

I still have a set of HC lenses that are orphans after the demise of my H3D-39ii and I'm very curious about how they have managed to get electronic control of them.

Currently, only Hasselblad themselves in their H to X adapter and FujiFilm (the original manufacturer of the HC lenses) in their H to GFX adapter have products that do this and whether it is limited to aperture control but also encompasses focus control is undocumented.

I'm not saying that this compatibility would make me buy one but, bearing in mind it has a dedicated Stills button, then being able to bring back a collection of fantastic set of lenses (albeit with a smaller FOV) that work more or less natively with a 100mp body that also happens to shoot RAW video would be worth considering.

I'm not being serious of course as that would be an insanely flimsy justification to buy one *

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

* Note from wife - Yes he is being serious.

 

 

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

49 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Long story short is that they have nothing on there that goes above 45fps at 12:K 3:2 BRAW 8:1.

Speaking as a person who needs anything over 24fps only rarely, it's great to know that I could easily do that on this camera, even using just standard CF Express cards, albeit with pretty frequent card swaps.  And when needing higher speeds, increasing compression ratio is probably fine - not to mention that they're quoting open gate on that page and not 16:9 which I'd be more likely to use (looks like 17:9 crops 16:9) to crop to 2.39 for delivery (it can do scope internally too, but it's nice to have a little bit of room to shift the image up or down a bit in post, without needing a full 3:2 frame for it).

Plus as long as there isn't a hit to the DR, I'd also be more likely to use it at 8K or 9K most of the time than to use it at 12K. 

It'll be interesting to see what people report once more of these suckers start getting into the hands of real people.  Most of the tests I've seen have focused on performance in 12K mode which is understandable, but I'm really more interested in the very high dynamic range combined with very low rolling shutter.

Edit: I just realized that in cined's lab test, they at least did the xyla 21 with the 4K mode as well as 12K and they were nearly identical - so the 8k/9k modes probably are too.

The biggest drawback so far seems to be low light performance - but my Komodo-X is ISO invariant at 800 in raw with the camera-chosen ISO being more of a suggestion for where to distribute tones than adjusting sensor gain - and that's not been a problem at all since I got it.

[Clark Nikolai]

39 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Speaking as a person who needs anything over 24fps only rarely, it's great to know that I could easily do that on this camera, even using just standard CF Express cards, albeit with pretty frequent card swaps.

It's rare for an entire movie to be shot at a high frame rate, most of a movie would be at 24fps with the occasional slo-mo shot so this would work out fine then.

[BTM_Pix]

54 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Speaking as a person who needs anything over 24fps only rarely, it's great to know that I could easily do that on this camera, even using just standard CF Express cards, albeit with pretty frequent card swaps.  And when needing higher speeds, increasing compression ratio is probably fine - not to mention that they're quoting open gate on that page and not 16:9 which I'd be more likely to use (looks like 17:9 crops 16:9) to crop to 2.39 for delivery (it can do scope internally too, but it's nice to have a little bit of room to shift the image up or down a bit in post, without needing a full 3:2 frame for it).

It wouldn't bother me either.

Using their calculator, this is what that max 45fps at 12:K 3:2 BRAW 8:1 looks like.

Using that as the guide, bumping up to the maximum 60 fps before the B-Mount 24.8v battery is needed would enable this in 8K with some headroom even with the lower compression of 5:1

That would be absolutely fine for me, particularly when the rolling shutter in 8K is down to global shutter territory at 5.5ms.

Upgrading the battery to 24.8v B-Mount would open up the rates above 60fps so keeping the data rate within spec would get this at 100fps at 8K

And dropping to 4K would get the full 144fps as well as a better compression ratio of 3:1.

All of that is theoretical based on the max data rate BM quote for CF Express and there may be as yet undocumented restrictions so it remains to be seen.

So its perfectly viable with the stock media option of using CF Express and the far more affordable 14.4v V-Mount battery solution and there is even an argument to say that if over 60fps is not a fundamental necessity and only a very rare requirement then hiring a B-Mount battery is a viable (and client chargeable) option.

The compromise play would be to buy a bi-voltage B-Mount battery such as the SWIT BIVO which is switchable between 14.4v and 24.8v to give you the boost when needed for the higher frame rates.

Looking at comparable SWIT 98wh batteries, the BIVO is around £350 more expensive than their regular 14.4v V-mount so the best way to think about it is you would basically be paying £350 for a high speed license.

 Not bad really.

[ND64]

Their sensor choice and body design contradicts their pricing strategy. You want to grab market share with aggressive prices before AI destroy everything? You make a compact body around a full frame 8k sensor with L mount; especially when Panasonic is hibernated as a bear in winter. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

1 hour ago, ND64 said:

Their sensor choice and body design contradicts their pricing strategy. You want to grab market share with aggressive prices before AI destroy everything? You make a compact body around a full frame 8k sensor with L mount; especially when Panasonic is hibernated as a bear in winter. 

They already have a compact body around a full frame 6k sensor and an L mount.  Also, if I'm not mistaken, that very camera was on sale last year for a crazy low price like $1500 or 1600.  So... they already basically did what you're saying, especially in the context of 6k being plenty for 4k delivery with enough room for non-aggressive digital reframing.

The pricing strategy on this one was originally V-Raptor [x] performance for about half the price of a brand new V-Raptor [x], but it's 12k and supports 3:2 open gate and 16:9 on a taller sensor than the Red - and also, within about a stop of Arri at... well, a whole lot less than half the price of Arri.

The new pricing strategy is the same as a Komodo-X, just a bit more than a C80, and less than a C400, but the performance of V-Raptor [x] and 12k.  Will it catch the first time camera buyer?  Nope.  Does it make their system a compelling option for the mid-range owner-operator?  Yup.

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

All of that is theoretical based on the max data rate BM quote for CF Express and there may be as yet undocumented restrictions so it remains to be seen.

So its perfectly viable with the stock media option of using CF Express and the far more affordable 14.4v V-Mount battery solution and there is even an argument to say that if over 60fps is not a fundamental necessity and only a very rare requirement then hiring a B-Mount battery is a viable (and client chargeable) option.

Theoretical, sure, but I don't think it's even remotely unreasonable to think that they'd support 8kp60 with a v-mount and CFE.  Komodo-X does 80fps at 6k and at their chosen price point, that's sort of the competition.  Still waiting for some to get in the hands of real users to hear their experiences, but once I'm back in the US, it's likely that I'll be exploring my options to trade in some of my stuff now (and probably some cash, sadly) toward one of these.

It's kind of crazy, fwiw, to think that I could soon have a video camera that almost as much resolution in video as my GFX 100 II has for photos...  though with maybe a little bit less dynamic range still... at least for single shot mode.  When shooting in continuous mode (which never reaches more than 8fps), the GFX reduces DR. 

[BTM_Pix]

8 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Once I'm back in the US, it's likely that I'll be exploring my options to trade in some of my stuff now (and probably some cash, sadly) toward one of these.

Hopefully you get back there and get it done before Donald J Tariff picks a fight with Australia.

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

There is no support (currently at least) for USB-C recording on the Ursa Cine 12K.

Hmmmm... then what is on B&H is being misleading then. 

 

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

So its perfectly viable with the stock media option of using CF Express and the far more affordable 14.4v V-Mount battery solution and there is even an argument to say that if over 60fps is not a fundamental necessity and only a very rare requirement then hiring a B-Mount battery is a viable (and client chargeable) option.

The compromise play would be to buy a bi-voltage B-Mount battery such as the SWIT BIVO which is switchable between 14.4v and 24.8v to give you the boost when needed for the higher frame rates.

Looking at comparable SWIT 98wh batteries, the BIVO is around £350 more expensive than their regular 14.4v V-mount so the best way to think about it is you would basically be paying £350 for a high speed license.

A couple of other options would be:

1) use a block battery for when you need the higher 24.8V (unless you need to be on a steadicam for the slowmo shots!)

2) have a URSA Mini Pro G2 on standby (a smart idea anyway for any BMD shoot! As a back up machine, should A Cam go down), which you would use only for the slowmo shots. Doubtful anybody would truly notice those little moments as being from a different camera in the final edit. 

 

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Hmmmm... then what is on B&H is being misleading then. 

As per the latest revision of the user manual, the USB-C ports are reserved for the EFV/PYXIS monitor, cellular streaming connection, firmware updates/software control and “accessories”.

The “accessories” aren’t defined but the presumption would be that it refers to the existing focus controller and zoom demand USB-C accessories that BM produce.

[eatstoomuchjam]

4 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Hopefully you get back there and get it done before Donald J Tariff picks a fight with Australia.

Or before he completely crashes the economy and gives us 3000% inflation.  😕 

I suppose that I should stock up on vegemite too, just in case.