Lumix S1RII coming soon

[Ninpo33]

39 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

Wow, this sounds extremely generic. Are you a bot? What do you mean correct skin tones? And have you ever shot positive film? Really huge dynamic range 😂

Regurgitating basic statements you’ve seen in the pseudointellectual “serious film making space” on YouTube like:“COmPoSitioN and liGhtiNg” is IMPORTANT, is absolutely void of any meaning in this discussion since I was talking about image quality from a technical point of view with regards to a particular camera, not an artistic and subjective one.

Nah, he was right. The phrase “3 singe most…” is really dumb. Plus to say the S5iix is “almost unusable” is also really dumb. That camera is obviously used by thousands of people on a daily basis with very good results.
 

Do you constantly whip pan around while shooting video? RS can be an issue but in real life pro work it’s rarely a problem. For those types of shots you can drop down to S35 or just use a different camera for that shot. That’s one of the reasons we own a Fuji X-H2s but it rarely ends up getting used TBH. Same with moiré, not an issue 90% of the time but if you do shoot a lot of subjects where it’s an issue you can always have an OLP put in by Kolari and you’re good to go. 

[newfoundmass]

Obviously we all want cameras with as little rolling shutter as possible, but there really isn't a major camera released in at least the last 10 years that I'd say has enough RS as to make it useless. Maybe in certain circumstances, like filming trains, fast cars, airplanes/helicopters or something? 

Everyone has their own standards, I guess, but out of all the issues I have with my S5II X the rolling shutter performance is pretty low on my list and there's really nothing about the camera overall that make me call it "unusable."

 

[Robert Patts]

Excluding whip pans. If you are shooting open gate , and are on a long lens around 200mm. Rolling shutter will rear its ugly head 

[MrSMW]

I don't know what some folks are doing (or smoking) but I've been shooting with S5II's since they came out and not experiencing all this crazy rolling shutter, moire, open gate long lens talk.

I have at least 20 hours of total finished work on-line from just last year alone shot exclusively on S5II's in 6k open gate and if you can spot any of these issues, you have sharper eyes than I do.

I just have my fingers crossed that the S1-2RXii is slightly more useable than the piece of shit S5ii. Because it's been holding me back and if only...

[Robert Patts]

If you have your camera on sticks and not moving you won’t have a problem. 
 

But  if you are hand holding with the lens at 200mm, shooting open gate , and are following someone walking on stage the rolling shutter / jello is very visible. 

[John Matthews]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I don't know what some folks are doing (or smoking) but I've been shooting with S5II's since they came out and not experiencing all this crazy rolling shutter, moire, open gate long lens talk.

I have at least 20 hours of total finished work on-line from just last year alone shot exclusively on S5II's in 6k open gate and if you can spot any of these issues, you have sharper eyes than I do.

I just have my fingers crossed that the S1-2RXii is slightly more useable than the piece of shit S5ii. Because it's been holding me back and if only...

Same here. If I were to think RS were a problem, I'd simply shoot in crop mode because it keeps up with everything in that mode. RS performance is way over-rated anyway. I've never said to myself "look at that crappy RS"! You only say that kind of thing in reviews and when you A-B test cameras.

[Simon Young]

To each their own. But talking about rolling shutter as being only a problem when shooting handheld at 200mm open gate is frankly ridiculous. RS impacts handheld motion at every focal length and whenever there is moderately fast movement in a scene. The Alexass are all sub 8m which is what is passable to my eyes. Once you go global shutter it’s hard to go back is all I can say. Your eyes don’t scan reality from top to bottom, left to right, do they? 😂😂😂

[Ninpo33]

9 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

To each their own. But talking about rolling shutter as being only a problem when shooting handheld at 200mm open gate is frankly ridiculous. RS impacts handheld motion at every focal length and whenever there is moderately fast movement in a scene. The Alexass are all sub 8m which is what is passable to my eyes. Once you go global shutter it’s hard to go back is all I can say. Your eyes don’t scan reality from top to bottom, left to right, do they? 😂😂😂

Wow, the $1,200 LUMIX up to an Alexa is quite the jump. Yeah, just use your Alexa I guess since your discerning eye can’t deal with all of this rolling shutter on the S5ii. Just terrible, terrible images coming out of the LUMIX cameras these days. 

[eatstoomuchjam]

12 hours ago, Simon Young said:

Wow, this sounds extremely generic. Are you a bot? What do you mean correct skin tones? And have you ever shot positive film? Really huge dynamic range 😂

Regurgitating basic statements you’ve seen in the pseudointellectual “serious film making space” on YouTube like:“COmPoSitioN and liGhtiNg” is IMPORTANT, is absolutely void of any meaning in this discussion since I was talking about image quality from a technical point of view with regards to a particular camera, not an artistic and subjective one.

If you view footage on a vectorscope, all human skin tones fall along a line between the reds and the greens (unless exposed with rgb light or whatever, this is assuming standard lighting).  If they skew too far to one side, the skintones look green and sickly.  If they skew too far the other way, they look pink and feverish.  Too saturated and they look orange.  Not saturated enough and they look pale.  That's what is meant by "correct skin tones."  When I was shooting Sony many years ago (like A7r -> A7s II era), I almost always had to drag them back from being too green.  I hear they improved a lot shortly after I exited the system.

And yes, I've shot positive film for years as well as negative film.  One of the drawbacks that just about any photographer will say about positive film is that it lacks dynamic range, as you said.  It's also why a majority of movies that are shot on film are shot with negative film.

As to the rest, technical discussions of image quality are only useful (in a filmmaking context) if they support artistic and subjective goals.  If you are an industrial technician looking for a new camera to put over a conveyor belt to detect defects in microchips as they go flying past, then by all means stick to a purely technical discussion of camera capabilities.  The rest of us will be over here trying to make art with our limited skills and pseudointellectual ideas of what's important in filmmaking. 😉

[MrSMW]

2 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

technical discussions of image quality are only useful (in a filmmaking context) if they support artistic and subjective goals

Indeed.

The technical capabilities of anything are worth diddly squat without human intervention and operation.

At least until AI or alien intervention surpasses us and that may not be so far off but does not exist in February 2025.

I only add the latter for context just in case by the end of the year, we have indeed been surpassed. Which is within the realms of possibility… 🛸

[Walter H]

21 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

It looks like Panasonic are trying to copy Sony and do a one-body design suits all as in case of a7 series.

So looks very much like it will be in the S5 mould with extra buttons.

It will be a pity if that means losing the top-LCD display.

Styling wise, ergonomics wise, they seem determined to make something quite charmless.

Yeah, when I saw that image... sigh.

I'm not an "S1 body or nothing" person but as many here have also noted, the build quality  and ergos (despite the weight) of the original three have been amazing. I actively dislike the feel of the S5 in hand.

I do think the S5ii/x feels incrimentally better in the hand and I'm interested if the additional proportions of the body "gets it right" or something. The loss of the top LCD is a bummer but not as critical to me as...

The mechanical shutter. Again, I think the S5ii/x is marginally better damped than the hollow klatch of the S5. Let's see.

[newfoundmass]

8 hours ago, Robert Patts said:

But  if you are hand holding with the lens at 200mm, shooting open gate , and are following someone walking on stage the rolling shutter / jello is very visible. 

If you're shooting at 200mm handheld for long periods of time in video you should probably be using a monopod or at least a shoulder rig. I know there are situations where that isn't possible, but that's a pretty extreme scenario. 

6 hours ago, Simon Young said:

To each their own. But talking about rolling shutter as being only a problem when shooting handheld at 200mm open gate is frankly ridiculous. RS impacts handheld motion at every focal length and whenever there is moderately fast movement in a scene. The Alexass are all sub 8m which is what is passable to my eyes. Once you go global shutter it’s hard to go back is all I can say. Your eyes don’t scan reality from top to bottom, left to right, do they? 😂😂😂

That's a really high standard. We have to remember that these are still sub-$2000 cameras. From my perspective, as someone who started out in video 28 years ago, I look at a camera like the S5II X and am in awe at what this camera I paid $2000 for can do. I am in awe, really, at what any of these cameras can do because I never imagined I'd be able to own a camera with these capabilities. When I was 16 working for a local production company that had Canon XL1s I was literally giddy when I would use it! I didn't sleep the night before the first time I knew I was going to use one! Obviously we can't judge everything based on what was available/what we used when we first started, but it does make some of our complaints seem pretty silly considering how fortunate we are. The fact that a $2000 camera can even be mentioned in the same breath as an Alexa is pretty crazy.