Lumix S1RII coming soon

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

If I had to guess, it's "try to stop the few photographers who are using Panasonic from jumping ship."  At this point, almost nobody who is starting out is going to opt for Panasonic, other than as a value option - and those people are way more likely to go S1 than S1R II.

Or an S5 (mk1 or mk2)

 

13 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

The great low light performance lends some credibility to the idea that it's using the same sensor as (or a very similar sensor to) the Ronin 4D.  I don't have an FX3 to test against, but some reviewers had said that the 6K performed better or similar to the FX3 and the 8K seems even cleaner.

If it's the same sensor (or a variation of it), that might be a reason that people would opt for the S1R II.  The image from the Ronin 4D 8K is really nice.  

This was a very interesting interview about the Ronin 4D I just watched tonight:

 

[j_one]

As with the s5ii release, I'm wondering what behind-closed-doors compromises they chose (or were forced) to make with this design. Some choices do seem puzzling. If its a photography-focused camera, even some of the "upgrades" in that department were sideways at best.

Again, it feels like they just molded the s5ii shell and improvements into this with a few photography upgrades (Capture One tethering etc) along with the features that IMO were truly designed for the video model most likely set for April's announcement. Between that model and the s5ii, the s1rii just got the leftovers, Panny kinda just shrugged its shoulders and moved on.

Photographers are mildly happy but not exactly over the moon for the time they had to wait.

Video shooters are a mixed bag, but none are exactly over the moon either.

Makes me wonder: Why didn't they just call this the s1ii? Or even S5r?

Not sure what this release accomplished bearing the "R" naming scheme. But as I said before, all the signs in improvements honestly just make me that much more excited for the video-focused model coming. Which, to be fair, if I were to guess, is what most Lumix-camp folks are here for anyways.

(I can't stress enough how happy I am to see the positive tweaks to IQ under this "L2" technology, RS aside)

[eatstoomuchjam]

46 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Or an S5 (mk1 or mk2)

D'oh!  I meant S5.  Thanks for the correction.  😅

47 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

This was a very interesting interview about the Ronin 4D I just watched tonight

For sure - make.art.now is a big Ronin 4D user which makes sense for his day job of extremely high-end real-estate videos and the occasional TV interview.  I'd keep in mind, though, that this interview which was full of glowing praise for the Ronin 4D was sponsored by DJI themselves.  I'm guessing that the camera's use in the film was organic, but as soon as DJI caught wind of it, they offered to throw a pile of money at the DP and Gibson to have them say just how well it worked.

Though their experience is, from the 4 shoots where I've used the camera now, very true to my own - a well-thought out camera with good ergonomics (provided you have some way to mitigate the weight!) that comes out of the bag and starts making really nice footage immediately - and one of the only gimbal setups where "I'm swapping lenses" doesn't lead to tears and screams of anguish from the rest of the cast/crew.

(Sorry for the topic drift, I just really like mine and I'm not fortunate enough to have DJI paying me a bucket of money to say it)

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

The Lumix have some special modes for DR, maybe it needs some time to figure it out - even Manny will use it more before a final result.

He also made a few mistakes regarding certain things such as the C-AF beep cannot be switched off. I highly doubt that.

And menus, - no one really likes anyone else's menus and he's a Canon/Sony boi so...

He says he is going to make a couple of other videos about a few things but I can tell you the end summary now which is he wouldn't spend his own money on it over a Canon R5ii or a Sony A7anything_recent_or_imminent.

They should have asked me to go. I could have had a free S1Rii/S5iiR. Except I don't have a YouTube channel. Or rather I do, but my cat video has yet to go viral.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, j_one said:

Makes me wonder: Why didn't they just call this the s1ii? Or even S5r?

Indeed. S5iiR would be more logical than S1Rii as it's far closer to an S5ii than the S1R, but hey ho.

[Ninpo33]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Indeed. S5iiR would be more logical than S1Rii as it's far closer to an S5ii than the S1R, but hey ho.

3 hours ago, j_one said:

Makes me wonder: Why didn't they just call this the s1ii? Or even S5r?

Not sure what this release accomplished bearing the "R" naming scheme. But as I said before, all the signs in improvements honestly just make me that much more excited for the video-focused model coming. Which, to be fair, if I were to guess, is what most Lumix-camp folks are here for anyways.

I mean, R stands for resolution not Photography. It has a 44mp sensor instead of 24. So technically it’s labeled just fine since it is the highest resolution camera they make. Maybe they should have called it H for hybrid but that’s confusing because of the S1H already considered the Hybrid before. V for video would have been better. 
 

My guess is that they’re dropping the S1 since it’s in the middle and not necessarily needed. 

S9 - line for vloggers

S5 - line for budget level hybrids

S1R - hybrid leaning towards stills

BS2H - video centric box cam 

[Davide DB]

20 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

I mean, R stands for resolution not Photography. It has a 44mp sensor instead of 24. So technically it’s labeled just fine since it is the highest resolution camera they make. Maybe they should have called it H for hybrid but that’s confusing because of the S1H already considered the Hybrid before. V for video would have been better. 
 

My guess is that they’re dropping the S1 since it’s in the middle and not necessarily needed. 

S9 - line for vloggers

S5 - line for budget level hybrids

S1R - hybrid leaning towards stills

BS2H - video centric box cam 

At this point, in an uncertain future video-centric model, I don't see how they can put in other video features while leaving the camera body unchanged since this one even though it has the fan seems to be capped. 
Maybe they really need to scale up to a box type camera
 

[ND64]

29 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

S1R - hybrid leaning towards stills

They need to move more towards still for having a dedicated R. 1.5 seconds of buffer and more than 20 seconds to clear doesn't look good in that camp

[Ninpo33]

[ND64]

32 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

Can be a good test for CIA recruitment. Look at the chart for only 8 seconds and close your eyes and anwser the question "in which modes 60p 4:2:2 is available?". 

[Andrew Reid]

20 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Can be a good test for CIA recruitment. Look at the chart for only 8 seconds and close your eyes and anwser the question "in which modes 60p 4:2:2 is available?". 

Haha

It's as perplexing as Panasonic's marketing.

"Yamane san I have a great plan, let's turn up 7 years late with something almost as good as the competition... but not quite"

7 years in a fancy oven only to find the heat was off!

[BTM_Pix]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

 

7 years in a fancy oven only to find the heat was off!

They need to watch this on YouTube next time.

[berkenboom]

i also was expecting more from the S1RII.  Its odd product placement, more like S2.5R: sits between the S1R and S5II. it does not feel like a flagship model,the resolution is watered down compared to the old one. And the video capabilities are more "nice to have in a photo camera" than "core features for a good hybrid camera" smaller battery does not help.

On the other side, it i could be an nice upgrade for users of the old S1. more megapixels, better autofocus, still has good weather sealing. But as an S1 user I am not tempted, the S5II offers much more value. And honestly, i am satisfied with my current camera.

Capture one thether support is welcome though. its one of the last brands to have support.
I wonder if they can add it to other camera's as well with firmware updates.

 

 

 

[Walter H]

@berkenboom As an S1 user, the reasons I would go this route (and very well might) rather than the better-valued S5II: 

• 44mp (which you note)
• perhaps better autofocus and perhaps better stabilization
• finally a good implementation of switching between photo and video modes - huge of me
• finally Capture One tethering - significant for me

On that last point, I doubt C1 tethering will be added to older cameras. I don't think this is a firmware issue so much as a Capture One/Panasonic issue and given the fairly vocal lobbying a bunch of us have pushed toward C1 over the years with no visible response other than "not enough demand", I rather expect that they will not look back at existing Panasonic bodies but might be willing to look forward here on out.

 

[sanveer]

Apparently Matt Frazer hints that the S1H successor is still in the picture. And that Panasonic has an interesting lineup planned (for other models also to be introduced). 

[newfoundmass]

I think people are being a lot more pessimistic than they need to be about this release and Lumix's future in general. As much as I am loathe to admit it, YouTubers are a big part of marketing these days and tons of them either went on the trip to Norway or were sent a camera to review, including prominent Sony, Canon, and Nikon shooters. Virtually all of them made positive videos about it. That's a move in the right direction, as far as marketing goes.

The real professionals who did use the camera, including in real professional settings, were all extremely positive and compared it favorably to the competition while marveling at the price.

It's a high resolution stills camera with excellent video features. A total 180 from what the original S1R was.

Given what folks are saying and anecdotal evidence available, they seem to have things coming down the pipeline. They could be better at conveying that to us for sure, but there are enough hints out there. See: the new monitoring app. 

As someone that was very doom and gloom about Lumix for a while there and who still sometimes scratches his head about decisions they make, these are all positive steps.

It's almost March. There are 9 months left in the year. Lets see what happens.

[Emanuel]

21 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

They need to watch this on YouTube next time.

Yeah, laugh but do you know what the most reputable microwave oven is? ; )

I've found it today:

https://www.businessinsider.com/guides/kitchen/panasonic-microwave-review

My ultimate purchase ordered tonight is a Daewoo and is not a car... ;- )

[Emanuel]

10 hours ago, Davide DB said:

From the reviews seen so far there is everything and nothing.
GU tested it in "lab mode" and slaughtered it. He was smart to report the bugs to Pana who fixed them for him via fw updates.
Other youtubers reported problems found by GU but they didn't get the updates and didn't even know they existed. So people who look at their reviews think it all sucks. For example, some say AF is not up to par. If you look at Richard Wong's review the AF is perfect and aligned with Sony. He has fw 1.0. he is the only one who tested extensively on animals and cars and there are some smart features.
Other youtubers have tried it on real projects or real use cases and there is very little criticism and they speak very highly of it.

Moving the camera left and right like crazy and screaming that the RS is terrible or claiming on paper that having only 12 stops without DR is like swearing in church, seems like bullshit to me. The beloved 5DMKII ML had 9 stops of DR and yet everyone was wetting their pants.
In short, lab is one thing and reality is another.

BTW the same youtubers who now blast the S1RII are the ones who would hate an S1R that we like a lot.

Great post man, my vote to stick it! :- ) 

At times, I even think to myself that a disclaimer urges to pop up to avoid armchair opinion makers out there...

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I think people are being a lot more pessimistic than they need to be about this release and Lumix's future in general. As much as I am loathe to admit it, YouTubers are a big part of marketing these days and tons of them either went on the trip to Norway or were sent a camera to review, including prominent Sony, Canon, and Nikon shooters. Virtually all of them made positive videos about it. That's a move in the right direction, as far as marketing goes

WOW What is this groundbreaking new marketing technique?

Tell me more!

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

The real professionals who did use the camera, including in real professional settings, were all extremely positive and compared it favorably to the competition while marveling at the price.

It's a high resolution stills camera with excellent video features. A total 180 from what the original S1R was.

As someone that was very doom and gloom about Lumix for a while there and who still sometimes scratches his head about decisions they make, these are all positive steps.

It's almost March. There are 9 months left in the year. Lets see what happens.

Overall it's a positive step but the elephants in the room are hard to ignore...

2020/21 spec, delivered 4-5 years too late to challenge Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji.

Sony has the a1, which you can get on eBay for not much more than the S1R II.

Nikon has the Z8.

Canon has the original EOS R5 which is the cheapest of the lot if you buy cameras like a normal person... i.e used!

Fuji has the GFX 100, again cheaper than the S1R II.

This Panasonic does not exist in a bubble.

I love the low light performance, open gate and Realtime LUTs. I am sure the EVF is almost as good as the original S1R.

It's just getting harder and harder to justify buying one and investing in the Panasonic ecosystem.

Maybe the trick is to ignore the wider market and marketing stuff, and just take it as it is (specs wise).

Oh and the ergonomics, style and fun factor do nothing for me... I wish they'd add a bit of personality to proceedings and innovate on the control scheme of our beloved cameras.

Also, a larger screen wouldn't go amiss.

And I still think the Sony a7R V has a big advantage in size and ergonomics over the S1R II.

[wolf33d]

Did I miss something or this new flagship has basically the same specs as my 4yo R5? (4k120, 8k30, 45mpx stills)? 

Does not look very interesting. Even the price, idk, if you can throw $3K in a camera you can probably throw $4K. It's not like this camera is $850. 

Their lenses don't seem great. A 16-35mm F4 for the same weight as my 14-35mm F4? 

The only thing I miss with my R5 is a little more DR from stills. D850 is by far the best full frame in the world for landscape DR, and yet new bodies have poorer DR with their stacked sensors. Appart from that, it's pretty much perfect.