Lumix S1RII coming soon

[Emanuel]

15 hours ago, wolf33d said:

The only thing I miss with my R5 is a little more DR from stills.

Really? ; ) The answer, my friend, is blowing in your own, is blowing in your own post... LOL BTW, where have you been? You as a few others over here are truly missed : ) 

  

15 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Even the price, idk, if you can throw $3K in a camera you can probably throw $4K.

Ah and €2762 to $4K is the difference (huge gap for 50% more BTW) enough to make me pull the trigger, you know? 

People have a budget, mine in mid-2020 decade is up to $500 for mini sensor size cams, perhaps other than iPhone but the fact is that I haven't bought one yet ; ) 

$1000-$1500 for a workhorse camera and about $2500 for a premium device. 

Other than that, they don't have my money in their pocket/bank account. I bought a 12K Ursa Mini Pro like new for $3K, so you see... ;- )

[ND64]

5 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Given what folks are saying and anecdotal evidence available, they seem to have things coming down the pipeline

Ditto Canon, Sony, Nikon. All of them have things coming down the pipeline. Imagine the upcoming R6iii, or A7rVI or A7V, or Z8ii with RED goodies. The point is there is no point for the distant 4th in the market, that doesn't even enjoy the luxury of userbase from DSLR era, to make Canikony clones, AND with sensor caveats, since it doesn't have access to latest and greatest from Sony Semi for some reason, AND couple it with an ancient CPU that make the active cooling system looks like a band aid solution, to market it as a "close enough to competition but cheaper" solution. All the criticism I see on the internet is about their business startegy. Nobody says you can't use this particular camera in Iceland to take landscape shots. 

[newfoundmass]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

WOW What is this groundbreaking new marketing technique?

Tell me more!

For Pannyboy it's a step in the right direction at least! I hate the game, but more Sony, Canon, and Nikon shooters saw Lumix related content that they normally wouldn't see. Whether that persuaded any of them into giving Lumix a shot or not is unknown, but it's a start and it shows that they realize they need to move beyond the bubble and try to attract users to their system. 

I get the frustration and criticisms, especially when they were leading the way in innovation for so long, but it's still a quality release that is pretty aggressively priced. As a user myself who is constantly looking at the big picture, especially when it comes to a systems longevity, I'm cautiously optimistic for the first time in a while.

For the better part of 15 years Lumix has done right by me. Most of those years were great, and totally changed the way my business was run and how I work. In recent years they've struggled; the delay between the GH5 and the GH6 was a frustrating period with subpar releases and mostly silence. They're taking steps to address that, though, so I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for now. 

[Ninpo33]

2 hours ago, wolf33d said:

Did I miss something or this new flagship has basically the same specs as my 4yo R5? (4k120, 8k30, 45mpx stills)? 

Does not look very interesting. Even the price, idk, if you can throw $3K in a camera you can probably throw $4K. It's not like this camera is $850. 

Their lenses don't seem great. A 16-35mm F4 for the same weight as my 14-35mm F4? 

The only thing I miss with my R5 is a little more DR from stills. D850 is by far the best full frame in the world for landscape DR, and yet new bodies have poorer DR with their stacked sensors. Appart from that, it's pretty much perfect. 

If you shoot anamorphic cinema style stuff the S1Rii is pretty nice. Really solid low light equal or better than the FX3 and class leading IBIS. This camera will be nice for Cinematic run and gun doc work and travel stuff. Leave the gimbal at home and a bring less lights. Yes please. Does the R5 do high res multi shot stuff? My last Canon was a 5Dmk2.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, ND64 said:

Ditto Canon, Sony, Nikon. All of them have things coming down the pipeline. Imagine the upcoming R6iii, or A7rVI or A7V, or Z8ii with RED goodies

This is just it. As of today, the new LUMIX is ‘the latest thing’ but tomorrow it won’t be. Not necessarily literally tomorrow, but probably within weeks as I believe the Sony A7V is up next and it will inevitably garner more adoration than the Panny.

The influencers lurch like lemmings from one thing to another, but there will be a core of loyalists.

I don’t remain loyal to any brand for loyalty sake but rather because they offer a combination of the best/least compromised tools that do the job I need them to do combined with the financial cost.

It is arguable that the new Panny is not quite ‘flagship worthy’ in terms of build and I agree. It’s pretty good, but IMO, compared with what existed before within the brand and what else is out there, it’s not quite what I expected, but maybe has to be at this level for financial reasons?

Thinking about it further, it’s more like a larger sensor evolution of the S5ii so really it’s an S5iiiR but I guess using S5iii so soon would suggest the S5ii is outdated and it is far from that.

Spec-wise, it’s not far off what I expected. Personally, I would have preferred full-frame 6k 60p open gate. And stopped there. Make that fantastic and willfully ignore 8k even if the sensor can do it. At least with this model.

And then the sensor. I wonder if they could not use the 61mp sensor or whether they could and this was a deliberate choice, but it’s an odd one of so to go from 47mp to 44mp after what, 6/7 years and call that progress.

And yes, I am aware, more pixels is not the be all and end all but personally, for my own photography needs, I did want want more and 44mp is borderline for how I work and want to work. 60 or more is where I want/need to be and I know all the blah blah blah “on social media posts it’s irrelevant” etc but that comment is irrelevant to me because I wish to be able to produce work up to a standard set by myself, not opinion.

So as a value proposition, is it good value? And is the brand dying?

I think brand new, it’s not the best value option out there unless it suits your specific needs and you are already heavily invested in the L Mount system.

I think its value will be used in 6-12+ months time. Especially 12+ months time.

Would I buy one new?

Yes, if I did not already own an A7RV and have all the glass I want for that.

Do I think it’s as good owning S5ii and A7RV?

No.

Is the brand dying?

Probably. A slow but inevitable silent death.

The products are not crap. They are highly competitive and these last few days, the influencers are all over them but the simple reality of business is you have to be relevant 365 days a year, not for 'your week in the sun' once every few years. It is not enough.

L Mount is a niche player.

To be a successful niche player, you have to have something different and stand out for that, not by being ‘good enough’. Because it is not enough.

If there is to be any kind of S1H successor, it will be received as the original was and every subsequent LUMIX camera has been, - news for a few days.

Within L Mount, Leica exist because they play their design, build and heritage card.

Sigma exist because they play their slightly crazy Japanese card.

LUMIX play their slightly dull but worthy card.

And that I think is the root of their issue and will be their undoing.

You can fly out all the influencers you want (and you should), but the product HAS to be more exciting.

Because if it is not, someone else WILL eat your lunch. Breakfast and dinner.

[ita149]

On 2/26/2025 at 5:57 AM, newfoundmass said:

I consider The Hybrid Shooter to be unbiased and he is very happy with the camera. He is, though, what his name suggests: a hybrid shooter, so this is kind of a camera made for him. 

 

Some of these youtubers use multi fake accounts on forums and L-M43-Sony rumors site to upvote themselves or downvote other people, this also allows them to have an army of virtual minions to support then even when they talk nonsense, like when the Hybridshooter said the IBIS of the A7III/A7IV was as good as on the S5/S5II. 
2 years ago, he mixed up his accounts on L-rumors while responding to a guy, he quickly deleted his post, but sadly for him, someone made a screenshot before he deletes his post.
Most youtubers must really be taken with a big grain of salt, even Gerald Undone who was really hard on Panasonic in the past and concentrated most of his reviews to point out the negative aspects of their cameras and lenses without talking too long about their positive sides. But for people using both Panasonic and Sony cameras , its bias was clear.

However I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by Panasonic products since 2022.
I use their cameras since a long time, I loved the GH4 and GH5 and I liked the S1, but everything after looked much less refined. The GH4 and GH5 had groundbreaking features and like the NX1, these cameras were ahead of their time.
The GH6, althouht it had great color science, was a total failure. In Europe, the price was cut down by almost an half after only some months ...
At this time they also changed their video engine making fine details in 4k looking like an oversampled 1080p, the S5II's 4k almost looked like smartphone footage, especially when using the 709 profiles and when the image was slightly underexposed leading to a waxy look when shoothing people face. I had absolutely not the feeling to use a Panasonic camera, this camera was really pointed toward influencers and smartphone users. So yes they have good IBIS and they have Open Gate, but still ... 

To come back about the S1RII, even if Panasonic fanboys are angry and even if they do the most they can to prove that everything is great and most flaws are not so important, the truth is this S1RII is the replacement of a 6 years old camera, and after 6 years Panasonic can't even reach the spec of the R5 from 2020 ? This is not serious, the R5 has much better rolling shutter, 8k internal raw without crop, and yet it is a camera from 2020 !
What we will get with the hypothetic S1HII ? During 6 years Panasonic used and re-used the same A7III sensor from 2018, so maybe we will just get a clone of the A7SIII ? I'm barely kidding.
Now you can find the R5 for less money than the S1RII (in Europe the price of the S1RII is close to 3600€), and if you want something better, of course in spending more money, you can get the great Nikon Z8, even the cheaper Z6III looks sometimes most interesting than the new Panasonic camera. And what about the lenses, why Panasonic stopped to make new S Pro lenses since 2019 ? We only have one S Pro prime. I don't see the point to invest to the L-mount for most people at this point and the S1RII will not help.
Since 2019, the wait to get a flagship camera was really too long, especially to get a camera "almost" as good cameras from 2020/2021.
I'm afraid it will be a total failure like the GH6 and there is a big chance the camera will be much cheaper in some months. I hope I'm wrong. 

On the positive side (according to some reviews), the crunchy/smartphone looks of the S5II is not present in the S1RII, as well as the waxy skin texture.
Like someone said earlier, it still can be a good upgrade from the S1 for people who are already heavily invested in the L-mount system.

 

[Jahleh]

2 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

If you shoot anamorphic cinema style stuff the S1Rii is pretty nice. Really solid low light equal or better than the FX3 and class leading IBIS. This camera will be nice for Cinematic run and gun doc work and travel stuff. Leave the gimbal at home and a bring less lights. Yes please.

Panasonic’s anamorphic support is really great with good IBIS. Still, at least with S5ii RS was pretty noticeable with 75mm Sirui Saturn 1.6x 400 gram lens. Also S5ii had only 1.5x desqueeze so focusing was a bit pain with 1.6x lens, and some times nothing was really sharply in focus. 

If I was to use S1Rii with anamorphic lens I would get a heavier lens with the desqueeze ratio what the camera supports, or try those AF anamorphics. 

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

Some of these youtubers use multi fake accounts on forums and L-M43-Sony rumors site to upvote themselves or downvote other people, this also allows them to have an army of virtual minions to support then even when they talk nonsense, like when the Hybridshooter said the IBIS of the A7III/A7IV was as good as on the S5/S5II. 
2 years ago, he mixed up his accounts on L-rumors while responding to a guy, he quickly deleted his post, but sadly for him, someone made a screenshot before he deletes his post.

Attention economy!

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

Most youtubers must really be taken with a big grain of salt, even Gerald Undone who was really hard on Panasonic in the past and concentrated most of his reviews to point out the negative aspects of their cameras and lenses without talking too long about their positive sides. But for people using both Panasonic and Sony cameras , its bias was clear.

Did you see the Northrup video on the S1R II, with the clickbait title "better than Sony and Canon"...

How the turn tables.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is just using this to bait Sony's PR team into giving him more attention.

*Attention economy*

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

However I must admit I'm a bit disappointed by Panasonic products since 2022.

I agree with you 100%.

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

I use their cameras since a long time, I loved the GH4 and GH5 and I liked the S1, but everything after looked much less refined. The GH4 and GH5 had groundbreaking features and like the NX1, these cameras were ahead of their time.
The GH6, althouht it had great color science, was a total failure. In Europe, the price was cut down by almost an half after only some months ...

Yep, I sold my GH6 for less than £700.

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

The truth is this S1RII is the replacement of a 6 years old camera, and after 6 years Panasonic can't even reach the spec of the R5 from 2020 ? This is not serious, the R5 has much better rolling shutter, 8k internal raw without crop, and yet it is a camera from 2020 !

Indeed and although it was $1000 more expensive at launch than the S1R II is today, that Panasonic still does not have an answer to the 2020/21 flagship sensor technology in 2025 should concern us all.

I don't know how much longer they can half-commit resources to this market without leaving it entirely.

And add on top of that the uninspired design department, unimaginative marketing and unintelligent product strategy as a whole and I really do think Lumix is on the way out.

S1R II just reinforces it if anything.

That it came out before the S1H II as well... Means we have to wait even longer for the real hybrid filmmaking camera, which is Pana's biggest strength!!

They ignore their strengths and deliver what nobody wants.

Look at the S9... people were expecting the GH7 launch and they showed them that!!

It's just dumb.

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

What we will get with the hypothetic S1HII ? During 6 years Panasonic used and re-used the same A7III sensor from 2018, so maybe we will just get a clone of the A7SIII ? I'm barely kidding.

Yeah cloning 5 year old Sony/Canon bodies but with worse AF seems to be the new Lumix strategy.

From pioneers to copy-cats.

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

Now you can find the R5 for less money than the S1RII (in Europe the price of the S1RII is close to 3600€), and if you want something better, of course in spending more money, you can get the great Nikon Z8, even the cheaper Z6III looks sometimes most interesting than the new Panasonic camera.

I fully agree.

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

And what about the lenses, why Panasonic stopped to make new S Pro lenses since 2019 ? We only have one S Pro prime.

Yes that's another elephant in the room nobody talks about, the S Pro lens range absolutely cannot compete with Canon/Nikon/Sony.

All I can say is that it's a good job Sigma is carrying the whole thing, as left to Panasonic and Leica, L-mount would be seen as so expensive nobody in their right mind other than rich Leica users would go anywhere near it!

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

On the positive side (according to some reviews), the crunchy/smartphone looks of the S5II is not present in the S1RII, as well as the waxy skin texture. Like someone said earlier, it still can be a good upgrade from the S1 for people who are already heavily invested in the L-mount system.

The image quality is the least of the S1R II's problems. All looks good.

But then so do 7 or 8 other full frame cameras.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

20 hours ago, MrSMW said:

And menus, - no one really likes anyone else's menus and he's a Canon/Sony boi so...

Indeed - the most cameras that I had in life were Panasonics and for me is by far the most intuitive, as the ergos.

[Walter H]

6 hours ago, ita149 said:

On the positive side (according to some reviews), the crunchy/smartphone looks of the S5II is not present in the S1RII, as well as the waxy skin texture.

This is what will interest me the most going forward (and also why I skipped the S5II/x) and I won't be looking at any more reviews until the camera has been out in the world for a bit. We now know what the camera fundamentally is and can expect certain ranges of improvement via firmware over time. Some things such as rolling shutter values are locked in. It is what it is - a likely very good 4k camera with excellent high-res stills. (Was the ability accept timecode added via firmware later to the S1 or was it there at the beginning? I forget.)

While I have also been frustrated with Panasonic's silence, etc. and we can go on and on about how late-to-the-party the S1RII (and Panasonic overall) is, none of that has much bearing to me in deciding whether this camera will keep me in the Panasonic fold or not. 

I can see the S1RII being my hybrid for events and other commissioned work and continuing with the S1 as my second 4k filmmaking body for the next number of years rather than jumping ship to some "big three holy grail" - all of which have loads of compromises in their own right.

I look forward to hearing and learning from what users here will have to say about the image and other more tactile things. 

[John Matthews]

There's a lot of whining about Panasonic not pushing hard enough in raw specs. Yet, many of these critics go silent when firmware updates completely transform the camera's usability. Panasonic focuses on features and tools that don’t generate the same hype as 4K 120fps or internal RAW—but they offer things like false color, shutter angle, and a lower price point. It’s just a different approach.

[Emanuel]

15 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Did you see the Northrup video on the S1R II, with the clickbait title "better than Sony and Canon"...

How the turn tables.

I wouldn't be surprised if he is just using this to bait Sony's PR team into giving him more attention.

LOL Right : ) That's always the pinch of salt we must bring to the equation almost invariably all the time long, unfortunately. I guess not much to say other than that conclusion where you put your finger straight into the wound, once again... it is what it is, I'm afraid ;- )

[Emanuel]

8 hours ago, John Matthews said:

There's a lot of whining about Panasonic not pushing hard enough in raw specs. Yet, many of these critics go silent when firmware updates completely transform the camera's usability. Panasonic focuses on features and tools that don’t generate the same hype as 4K 120fps or internal RAW—but they offer things like false color, shutter angle, and a lower price point. It’s just a different approach.

Price point IMHO is half part of their strength. And how reliable their product is, an extra reason why we never put them out of our radar.

- EAG

[Ninpo33]

10 hours ago, Jahleh said:

Panasonic’s anamorphic support is really great with good IBIS. Still, at least with S5ii RS was pretty noticeable with 75mm Sirui Saturn 1.6x 400 gram lens. Also S5ii had only 1.5x desqueeze so focusing was a bit pain with 1.6x lens, and some times nothing was really sharply in focus. 

If I was to use S1Rii with anamorphic lens I would get a heavier lens with the desqueeze ratio what the camera supports, or try those AF anamorphics. 

You talking handheld on that 75mm? That's really pushing it. 

The IBIS and micro jitters can actually mess up the sharpness there and the added resolution of the S1Rii and new IBIS software seems to be really pushing the abilities of shots we couldn't get before with even the S5iiX

Have you watched Cam Mackey's S1rii video yet? Shows what it can do with 1.5x in a way I would have expected the RS to make the shots unusable. He says he's been talking to LUMIX about adding more stretch ratios soon in an update. Who knows though... 

I'm not expecting a $3300 8k mirrorless camera to be able to keep up with fast RS on a tele anamorphic for action shots but it would be great for slower narrative stuff. Also, there are so many shooting options in that camera you can switch modes as needed. 

[PannySVHS]

Slashcam tested the S1RII. Full frame 6K 60p DCI gives exellent resolution downscaled on a 4K timeline with 15.6ms rolling shutter. 24-30p 8K is slightly better but with 22.8ms readout. Battery lasts 1 hour 39min of recording time in 10bit 4K 25p.

They tested latitude of the Lumix being best of all Dslms, above a Nikon Z8, being close to the Dual Gain sensor of the C70 and C300 MKII. Best of Dslms means being about 1 stop better than a Z8, which was 1 stop better than a S1H which was slightly better than a Canon R8 in their latitude test.

Dynamic Boost didn't show a better result. It stopped after 40min of recording because of heat and it performed increased rolling shutter.

The SR1II looks like it has the guts of a great hybrid for 44MPix stills and for full frame 4K and 6K up to 60p and 8K30p with class leading latitude and above average battery life in video. Hopefully they will offer the 15.6ms readout for 4K/6K in 24p to 30p as well, like they did for 50/60p.

I'm interested to see actual footage. This camera could be a great bang for the buck.

 

 

[newfoundmass]

People were pretty hysterical about the Lumix S9 when it was first announced. Now it's a relatively popular camera that people have decided is underrated. Even non-Lumix users bought and use it.

If you look beyond the influencer noise and listen to what professionals are saying, they're all praising the S1RII. I know it's easy for them to be drowned out by the dudebros who were flown overseas and then flooded YouTube with videos of them listing the specs excitedly interspersed with shitty JPEGS and slow motion clips they took, but they are out there and have good things to say.

Among other things, Manny says he doesn't have fun using his other cameras (he is a Sony and Canon shooter) but he actually has fun using the S1RII. He wants to put it through its paces more, but after using it on a shoot he has a lot of good things to say. 

Cam Mackey set up a shoot with it and showed how he worked with it in post. 

It sucks that so many people make videos ABOUT cameras, as opposed to making videos WITH the cameras and then giving their opinions on what using them is like.

[Ninpo33]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Slashcam tested the S1RII. Full frame 6K 60p DCI gives exellent resolution downscaled on a 4K timeline with 15.6ms rolling shutter. 24-30p 8K is slightly better but with 22.8ms readout. Battery lasts 1 hour 39min of recording time in 10bit 4K 25p.

They tested latitude being best of all Dslms, above a Nikon Z8 and also bettering the Dual Gain sensor of the C70 and C300 MKII, standing right between the Canons and an Alexa LF. Best of Dslms means being about 1 stop better than a Z8, which was 1 stop better than a S1H which was slightly better than a Canon R8 in their latitude test.

Dynamic Boost didn't show a better result. It stopped after 40min of recording because of heat and it performed increased rolling shutter.

The SR1II looks like it has the guts of a great hybrid for 44MPix stills and for full frame 4K and 6K up to 60p and 8K30p with class leading latitude and above average battery life in video. Hopefully they will offer the 15.6ms readout for 4K/6K in 24p to 30p as well, like they did for 50/60p.

I'm interested to see actual footage. This camera could be a great bang for the buck.

 

 

Agree on all points.

Even at the 24ms readout of the other modes it's as good as the older LUMIX cameras and by no means a major issue for most work. I think RS on the S1H in open gate was at like 29ms. There are always tradeoffs and so far we are not at the point technologically speaking for 6k or 8k resolution for larger sensor readout speeds and that level of dynamic resolution. Nikons are really, really good but lack in DR and have noise. 

Like most people I am seeing that the S1Rii just shows us what the next Videocentric Lumix camera should be like if the Photocentric/Hybrid model is this good for video. 

If you stripped away all the extras and just looked at the basic specs, the S1Rii is a pretty solid upgrade. Yes it took too long and yes it could have been faster but we finally got 4k 60p in FF and people aren't happy. Amazing low light with really, really clean images with ultra fine film like noise/grain, 32 bit float, Anamorphic support, even better IBIS, high res stills. Internal Prores raw and can shoot to SSD. 

"BUT GERALD SAID THE ROLLING SHUTTER IS BAD" 

IT'S DOA."

 

 

 

 

[Ninpo33]

9 hours ago, Walter H said:

What it is - a likely very good 4k camera with excellent high-res stills. (Was the ability accept timecode added via firmware later to the S1 or was it there at the beginning? I forget.)

While I have also been frustrated with Panasonic's silence, etc. and we can go on and on about how late-to-the-party the S1RII (and Panasonic overall) is, none of that has much bearing to me in deciding whether this camera will keep me in the Panasonic fold or not. 

I can see the S1RII being my hybrid for events and other commissioned work and continuing with the S1 as my second 4k filmmaking body for the next number of years rather than jumping ship to some "big three holy grail" - all of which have loads of compromises in their own right.

I was disappointed early on but after seeing the low light capabilities and really clean (low noise) video I'm once again considering it. I think I fall into the small niche category of people this camera is perfect for.

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, Ninpo33 said:

"BUT GERALD SAID THE ROLLING SHUTTER IS BAD" 

IT'S DOA."

There's a lot of that and it's frustrating.

It's why I keep going back to the people who are using it on actual shoots. So far I've heard how much of a let down the camera is by people who haven't used it, while the professionals I have seen use it are filled with praise. If real photographers, filmmakers and colorists are all saying great things about the camera, maybe it's not so doom and gloom? 

I mean, at the end of the day, all we've gotten is:

Specs.

A couple dozen YouTubers who wouldn't know how to put a camera through it's paces if their life depended on it, who are saying mostly positive things.

A small handful of professionals who have used it in a professional setting, who are also saying mostly positive things.

[Walter H]

59 minutes ago, Ninpo33 said:

I think I fall into the small niche category of people this camera is perfect for.

Same.