Lumix S1RII coming soon

[Emanuel]

The obsessive RS focus looks like funnier to me when it is coming from same people who often also praise anamorphics...

TBH I think that many instead are entitled to concomitantly attend some good stuff talk about... aesthetics. Really.

- EAG

Grand Prix of the Automobile Club of France, Course at Dieppe 1912

by Jacques Henri Lartigue (1894-1986)

Here when he was 92 years old... 

PS: I wonder what this guy and autheur of one of my fav pics ever shot would think about such particular criticism (I mean this, not exactly whatever critical thinking is or when has place to be) on this and many other capture devices... nowadays.

PM me and I send you my shipping address where you can send them to someone who really praises what a few seem to want to see replaced by what? Reality? Really? Is that the object or subject of your scope as shooters? *sigh* What a good education lacks about what "the expression of ideas and emotions through a physical medium" actually means.

[Caleb Genheimer]

The real challenge is that until very recently, proper full frame sensor tech has been extremely stagnated. Even Canon, who make their own sensors, went bigger and ditched their lauded DGO in the process. Sony, who makes most everyone else’s sensors, hasn’t done much since shifting to BSI. Panasonic had Dual Native ISO, now it’s been an option for everyone to leverage lately. But ultimately, if you want a 24X36mm video sensor, it’s gonna top out at ~13 stops of DR (maybe half a stop more than that thanks to some highlight recovery and/or noise reduction.) The market has tightened up, sure, but the core technology has also provided very low motivation for existing users to upgrade. Most of the changes have been in tertiary areas like autofocus and ergonomics. Those are important in some contexts, sure, but they’re not paradigm shift improvements. That’s what is needed for market share to shift in a company’s favor.

 

I have a small amount of hope for LUMIX from two things: the shuttering of Varicam, which moved their team into the LUMIX department, and the recent (even if half-baked,) collaboration with Arri. Both bring an insight into a camera ethos that differs from what LUMIX have been releasing up to this point. Arri has also been feeling market shrink, which could mean a window of opportunity for LUMIX to deepen that relationship and do something interesting in concert with Arri. But the window is probably only 2-3 years at the very most, thanks to the elephant in the room:

 

BMD’s 12K RGBW sensor has just demonstrated a paradigm shift. If you already have some cine batteries and the right memory cards, you can have that thing shipped, powered, and recording blindingly impressive footage for only $7K. That may seem expensive, but not when it is very nearly on par with an Alexa LF. And the real kicker-time-ticker? It ain’t gonna get MORE expensive, I can tell you that for certain. BMD surely has a roadmap already in place to reach economy of scale with that tech, and we’ll likely see it in Pyxis/Pocket price point cameras in under 5 years. 
 

Everybody else better hope Sony’s sensor development team has been saving something in their back pocket, because now’s the time, or everyone’s going to get outplayed in the not so distant future.

[IronFilm]

6 minutes ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

I have a small amount of hope for LUMIX from two things: the shuttering of Varicam, which moved their team into the LUMIX department, and the recent (even if half-baked,) collaboration with Arri. Both bring an insight into a camera ethos that differs from what LUMIX have been releasing up to this point. Arri has also been feeling market shrink, which could mean a window of opportunity for LUMIX to deepen that relationship and do something interesting in concert with Arri. But the window is probably only 2-3 years at the very most, thanks to the elephant in the room:

It's rough times at ARRI, they've got a tonne of ARRI 35 cameras sitting on the shelves that need to shifted.

6 minutes ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

BMD’s 12K RGBW sensor has just demonstrated a paradigm shift. If you already have some cine batteries and the right memory cards, you can have that thing shipped, powered, and recording blindingly impressive footage for only $7K. That may seem expensive, but not when it is very nearly on par with an Alexa LF. And the real kicker-time-ticker? It ain’t gonna get MORE expensive, I can tell you that for certain. BMD surely has a roadmap already in place to reach economy of scale with that tech, and we’ll likely see it in Pyxis/Pocket price point cameras in under 5 years. 

I'd love to see a S35 sensor that is an 8K crop of BMD's 12K sensor put inside a Pyxis/Pocket with a mirorrless mount at a banger price. 

But got to remember, even if you have ARRI beating image quality from BMD cameras, there are still a tonne of other reasons why people go with non-BMD cameras instead. It's not just about the image. 

[Caleb Genheimer]

41 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I'd love to see a S35 sensor that is an 8K crop of BMD's 12K sensor put inside a Pyxis/Pocket with a mirorrless mount at a banger price. 

But got to remember, even if you have ARRI beating image quality from BMD cameras, there are still a tonne of other reasons why people go with non-BMD cameras instead. It's not just about the image. 

Of course. I do think @Andrew Reid is spot on in pointing out that the S1RII’s physical design is uninspired. Even if all else remains equal, LUMIX desperately needs to find their video-centric camera body format. Sony’s FX line is walking off with that segment, even without including open gate. 
 

I do believe that there’s a sizable market still hanging out sub-$5K, and BMD could quickly walk away with a large slice of the pie. What they don’t cover, the FX line covers very nicely. The Sonys are feature-rich and maximalist in terms of including hybrid type features on top of the video-first format. BMD sits in an interesting place where they keep things simple/straightforward in a way that is heavily focused on streamlining cinema work. They're still building up trust on reliability and build quality, but there’s traction on that front… and at some point, the price point with what they offer is just too good to ignore.

 

the 12K is $7K, and the Pyxis? Almost 1/3rd that price. I find it hard to believe they’re not aiming to land something in the middle, just a touch over $4K. You’re on a good track with the S35 cut-down of the 12ak sensor. I also wonder about simply binning the existing sensor, to keep the data rates within reason for basic cards, and the processing needs within the means of a lesser pipeline, and the cooling requirements down.

Presumably BMD could also do RGBW with a larger photosite arrangement, to bring the resolution down. 
 

It’s pretty obvious that the 12K is “look what we can do,” and it’s gonna trickle down over time. Again, I hope it spurs LUMIX and others to push for better CMOS tech, because they’re all capable of building good cameras. I do really like what LUMIX has put out on a number of occasions. The S1H was the only camera to put a proper OLPF on the IMX410 until Pyxis just recently. The GH5S with dual native ISO and V-Log L in such a small form factor was a true joy to work with. And the GH2 had a really lovely look back in the day.

 

The S1RII is sitting in a very strange zone. High resolution. High readout speed. The big standard color and dynamics that come with decent Sony CMOS these days. It’s not a bad camera. It’s just not remarkable either. 
 

I guess I’m just glad the last couple years I’ve pivoted to buying glass, because I don’t feel like I’ve missed out on any cameras in that timeframe.

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

A couple dozen YouTubers who wouldn't know how to put a camera through it's paces if their life depended on it, who are saying mostly positive things.

A small handful of professionals who have used it in a professional setting, who are also saying mostly positive things.

I can understand how some of the reviewer YouTools can get a bit overexcited:

Hello this is LUMIX calling. Would you like a free all expenses paid trip to Norway?

You would, great.

Would you also like to keep and take away the camera that you will be gifted?

OK cool, we thought you might.

No, you are not obliged to say nice things but next time we plan one of these trips…

-

They say the weather was not great on this trip but regardless, all I have seen is a few clips of each other on the same boat and a couple of reindeer. A bit weird, but fortunately a few who are actual working filmmakers and photographers, took the time to then go and shoot some real material which is low beginning to appear.

As with the S9, give it a few weeks and it’s going to be quite well regarded I think.

Once we have all got over the slightly disappointing dull design and the overhyped RS issue. I think…

[newfoundmass]

49 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I can understand how some of the reviewer YouTools can get a bit overexcited:

Hello this is LUMIX calling. Would you like a free all expenses paid trip to Norway?

You would, great.

Would you also like to keep and take away the camera that you will be gifted?

OK cool, we thought you might.

No, you are not obliged to say nice things but next time we plan one of these trips…

-

They say the weather was not great on this trip but regardless, all I have seen is a few clips of each other on the same boat and a couple of reindeer. A bit weird, but fortunately a few who are actual working filmmakers and photographers, took the time to then go and shoot some real material which is low beginning to appear.

As with the S9, give it a few weeks and it’s going to be quite well regarded I think.

Once we have all got over the slightly disappointing dull design and the overhyped RS issue. I think…

That's why I really don't put any stock in those YouTubers. Even if they weren't getting flown out on trips or given free stuff, they have an incentive to stay on the companies good side because they get tons of views for their channels. Unfortunately it's part of the marketing game these days, and so I begrudgingly applaud Lumix for at least casting a wider net and getting non-Lumix YouTubers to promote it. That's good for the system.

Still, we shouldn't discredit those who've taken the camera, used it in professional settings, gone in depth working with the images, and have been overwhelmingly positive. I suspect as more professionals get the camera in their hands and use it it will be viewed very well. 

I'm really not trying to come off as a Lumix fan boy, there are things that I don't like (I won't complain about the overheating issues again, as anyone that reads my posts knows my feelings on that haha) but as someone who has been nervous about Lumix I see this release as a positive step and am, for the first time in a while, excited about what comes next and am relatively hopeful. It was a hard couple of years there, but we're seeing progress being made. 

[Jahleh]

13 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

You talking handheld on that 75mm? That's really pushing it. 

The IBIS and micro jitters can actually mess up the sharpness there and the added resolution of the S1Rii and new IBIS software seems to be really pushing the abilities of shots we couldn't get before with even the S5iiX

Thought also 75mm handheld could be pushing it. With heavier 1,3kg Sirui Venus 1.6x panning would have probably been fine, but I did not want another big and heavy lens to carry along with my S Pro 50 F1.4. 
Could be the Sirui copy I had was not perfect, as it was sometimes hard to nail the focus even on a tripod through the S5II EVF. 

13 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Have you watched Cam Mackey's S1rii video yet? Shows what it can do with 1.5x in a way I would have expected the RS to make the shots unusable. He says he's been talking to LUMIX about adding more stretch ratios soon in an update. Who knows though... 

Cam’s footage looked absolutely gorgeus, like in his Ronin 4d 8k review. The same with Media Division. Nice to see what S1RII is capable of in the hands of Pros with good optics.
S1RII’s 5.76M dot EVF should also help focusing compared to S5II’s 3.78M dot EVF, but they both are 0.78x and not 0.8x like in GH7 and Z6iii. 

13 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

I'm not expecting a $3300 8k mirrorless camera to be able to keep up with fast RS on a tele anamorphic for action shots but it would be great for slower narrative stuff. Also, there are so many shooting options in that camera you can switch modes as needed. 

There’s always compromises. Z6iii does not have the desqueeze at all and it’s IBIS is what it is compared to Panasonic. And with NRaw you need NR more often than you’d like. 
I think I will wait at least 3 months to see if they announce another camera, and to see what actual buyers think about the S1RII and it’s IQ. 

[ac6000cw]

On 2/26/2025 at 9:55 PM, sanveer said:

Apparently Matt Frazer hints that the S1H successor is still in the picture. And that Panasonic has an interesting lineup planned (for other models also to be introduced). 

Just watched it - some quite interesting development background stuff, e.g. how the 'cropless' stabilization works.

[ita149]

20 hours ago, Walter H said:

This is what will interest me the most going forward (and also why I skipped the S5II/x) and I won't be looking at any more reviews until the camera has been out in the world for a bit. We now know what the camera fundamentally is and can expect certain ranges of improvement via firmware over time. Some things such as rolling shutter values are locked in. It is what it is - a likely very good 4k camera with excellent high-res stills. (Was the ability accept timecode added via firmware later to the S1 or was it there at the beginning? I forget.)

 

Yes, I will test the S1RII myself before buying it this time, I saw the Slashcam.de test about the resolution in video but I'm suspicious because the same site said the S5II had a flawless and quite "cinematic" video rendering. I could said something like this for the S1 and S5, but certainly not for the S5II. Resolution is a thing, but the processing as well. However, the rolling shutter certainly not look so bad compared to the S5II(X).

[Walter H]

28 minutes ago, ita149 said:

Yes, I will test the S1RII myself before buying it this time, I saw the Slashcam.de test about the resolution in video but I'm suspicious because the same site said the S5II had a flawless and quite "cinematic" video rendering. I could said something like this for the S1 and S5, but certainly not for the S5II. Resolution is a thing, but the processing as well. However, the rolling shutter certainly not look so bad compared to the S5II(X).

Rolling shutter will be a situational issue and I agree that more more footage I see, the less concerned I am than from the early reports. Yeah, the middle of the CVP review is disconcerting but this is a very tight crop of the subjects head in 6k open-gate and it really appears to be not significant in many other scenerios that align with how I shoot and what I need.

@Jahleh Also agree - super heartening to see some really gorgeous footage. I've not watched everything but I was initially pretty put off by the 8k I saw from PetaPixel - seemed overly sharp with aliasing in the details. So much that I'm seeing now is so much nicer.

I may wait until end of June or I might spring for it in early April depending upon the work I have coming up. A few days ago I covered (photo & video) two rallys over six hours at the State House in New York. Profoundly variable lighting, mixed lighting, terrible light quality and hundreds of people in a variety of locations. The S1 is still a champ but when I think about one switch to move from photo to video (vs a dial and two button presses), higher resolution with no lower light penalty, auto focus that I can point to an individual in a crowd and say "stay there" for the next thirty seconds, to be able to walk and have quite good stabilized footage.... I'm excited to not be fighting the camera to get the results, let's just say.

[Davide DB]

On 2/26/2025 at 8:31 PM, Ninpo33 said:

 

I'm becoming crazy to understand these settings.

If i understand it correctly, I have 4:2:2 only in C4K or 4K otherwise I have always 4:2:0. Basically it's like my GH5MII.

Am I missing something?

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But got to remember, even if you have ARRI beating image quality from BMD cameras, there are still a tonne of other reasons why people go with non-BMD cameras instead. It's not just about the image. 

That is true, but from everything I've seen, the Ursa Cine is also a well-designed tool with a pretty well-thought-out interface...  and that comes from a person who hasn't been even remotely interested in any BM cameras since the OG pocket.

In the high-end space, it's still likely to be almost all Arri all the time, but for us schlubs playing in the low-budget space, getting Arri-comparable quality out of a camera with good UX is pretty exciting!

[IronFilm]

15 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

That is true, but from everything I've seen, the Ursa Cine is also a well-designed tool with a pretty well-thought-out interface...  and that comes from a person who hasn't been even remotely interested in any BM cameras since the OG pocket.

In the high-end space, it's still likely to be almost all Arri all the time, but for us schlubs playing in the low-budget space, getting Arri-comparable quality out of a camera with good UX is pretty exciting!

You're right about on the high end, but even at the low / mid end, I could still see people choosing the FX9/FX6/FX3/FX30 instead of this mythical "Pyxis with a Ursa Cine sensor"

[Andrew Reid]

FX9 is low end?