Lumix S1RII coming soon

[ND64]

8 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

Its more like a successor for Z7ii Nikon would make, rather than Z8 competitor. 

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, Thpriest said:

If you can then being in one system makes sense. Each camera is a back up to the others and I'd imagine this will use the same batteries making everything easier to manage.

This along with 2 other factors, might swing it:

2. In camera crop markers which my current Sony does not have.

3. High quality matching super slow mo.

Otherwise, I agree with several others in this thread and that is I don't think this one is intended as 'The Video' one but like most cameras these days, has to have at least decent video spec.

The pure photographists will moan about that all over the interwebs, but they are just being unrealistic about the market `and what manufacturers have to do these days.

[John Matthews]

From the look of it, I'm just happy that the S1rii definitely doesn't sound like a BS update where everyone will be saying "that could have been done with a firmware update." Sure, they don't release very often, but when they do, they make the most of it. Now, give us some pancakes.

Objectively, the S1rii will become the "video camera" over the GH7 in the line-up. It makes me wonder where M43 is going to go after this.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Objectively, the S1rii will become the "video camera" over the GH7 in the line-up. It makes me wonder where M43 is going to go after this.

Well, the GH7 shooting package will be both lighter, and probably merely half the price. 

[John Matthews]

10 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Well, the GH7 shooting package will be both lighter, and probably merely half the price. 

Yes, it will. I was talking more in terms of "flagship," whatever that means. I'm really hoping they get the M43 cameras smaller with decent features. I want a small 4k 420 10bit camera with full-sensor readout. It's 2025 and should be possible for them now.

[ac6000cw]

3 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Objectively, the S1rii will become the "video camera" over the GH7 in the line-up. It makes me wonder where M43 is going to go after this.

26 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Well, the GH7 shooting package will be both lighter, and probably merely half the price.

They'll both be the Panasonic 'video flagships' of their respective lens mounts, basically, each with (in system terms) their own strengths - e.g. M43 lenses are generally somewhat smaller and lighter, FF has better low-light performance.

For example, I regularly happily carry around a bird reserve an OM-1 plus Pana 100-300mm lens (total weight about 1.1 kg), but I'd never want to carry around an S5ii plus Sigma 150-600mm f5-6.3 (total weight about 2.8 kg). Both combos have the same FOV at the long end.

At this point in time, I don't really see M43 and FF competing very directly with each other.

[John Matthews]

13 minutes ago, ac6000cw said:

At this point in time, I don't really see M43 and FF competing very directly with each other.

You're probably right about that for now. Currently, that highest MP count on an L-mount camera is 61MP. If it gets to 100MP, the pixel density will equal the highest resolution M43 sensor (25MP). This would mean you could double a focal length and still have the same output of a M43 camera, effectively "reducing the size" of the lens.

Also, the lens size argument really only holds true today for longer focal lengths because the shorter ones have been roughly the same size (for pro zooms). Look at the 20-60 f/3.5-5.6 kit zoom- some would say it renders a 10-30mm f/1.7-2.8 in M43. That's not bad for what it weighs and what it costs. In M43 at the wide end, it's the 15mm and 20mm f/1.7 that are hard to beat (for now), but it'll happen soon enough. I doubt FF will ever be able to have a 24 to 600mm covered in under a kg, camera included. With M43, you could get a used E-M10 iii, Panasonic 12-32mm, Olympus 45mm f/1.8, and Olympus 75-300mm- that's not far off from 1kg. FF can't do that in any system.

[Jahleh]

After checking last year's 1.5TB of footage from 60 shooting days or so, and editing it to a 15min HDR video, the IQ from GH6 and GH7 seems to be a bit better, i.e. calmer, compared to S5ii IMO, as over sharpening is not visible on M43. 
6k open gate on S5ii can too look calm and good on some occasions, and it has the DR advantage on low light.
Fingers crossed this S1Rii has both the IQ and even better DR, and I might swap back to L mount from Z6iii

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

For example, I regularly happily carry around a bird reserve an OM-1 plus Pana 100-300mm lens (total weight about 1.1 kg), but I'd never want to carry around an S5ii plus Sigma 150-600mm f5-6.3 (total weight about 2.8 kg). Both combos have the same FOV at the long end.

Or check out the newly announced Sigma 300-600mm f/4

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1881815-REG/sigma_598969_300_600mm_f_4_dg_os.html 

An easy all day carry around lens indeed! 😉 

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0835876793/sigma-announces-the-ultra-telephoto-300-600mm-f4-dg-os-sports-lens 

For the APS-C shooters, then Simga also announced a Sigma 16-300mm f/3.5-6.7 for only $699:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1881813-REG/sigma_887975_16_300mm_f_3_5_6_7_dc_os.html 

[ac6000cw]

32 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

Or check out the newly announced Sigma 300-600mm f/4

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1881815-REG/sigma_598969_300_600mm_f_4_dg_os.html 

An easy all day carry around lens indeed! 😉 

https://www.dpreview.com/news/0835876793/sigma-announces-the-ultra-telephoto-300-600mm-f4-dg-os-sports-lens 

Yes - a mere 4kg and 470mm long (and $6000!)... 😉 (but actually the 315mm long, 2kg M43 OMDS 150-400mm f4.5 TC1.25x IS PRO Lens is even more expensive - £6700 in the UK)

 

[Walter H]

7 hours ago, Jahleh said:

After checking last year's 1.5TB of footage from 60 shooting days or so, and editing it to a 15min HDR video, the IQ from GH6 and GH7 seems to be a bit better, i.e. calmer, compared to S5ii IMO, as over sharpening is not visible on M43. 
6k open gate on S5ii can too look calm and good on some occasions, and it has the DR advantage on low light.
Fingers crossed this S1Rii has both the IQ and even better DR, and I might swap back to L mount from Z6iii

Was the S5ii footage you are referring to originally capture in LOG? Or other? Is this pointing toward the chroma sampling complaints others have made about the S5ii/S5iix footage? A "crunchiness" vs the "calmness" as you put it? 

I want to dintinquish between what you are calling "calmness" based upon over-sharpening or other factors. Any frame grabs from your footage displying the issue would be helpful. 

I've not have moire issues with my S1 and LOG footage before or after but I did purchase the Kolari filter after repeated portraits shoots  with various issues in the stills. 

[newfoundmass]

The S1Rii having strong video features to me isn't a sign that there won't be a more video centric camera released, but a sign that they learned from the S1 and S1R launch. Matching what competitors have out is part of it, but there was a lot of frustration on the release of the S1 and the S1R about the video features, re: paid upgrades for the S1 and limited video features on the S1R. Not only that, but we've seen everyone else releasing high resolution cameras with advanced video features in the years since. The market kind of demands it now.

It does raise the question as to how they'll differentiate a new S1H from it, but I don't think it means they'll just not release one.

[Jahleh]

1 hour ago, Walter H said:

Was the S5ii footage you are referring to originally capture in LOG? Or other? Is this pointing toward the chroma sampling complaints others have made about the S5ii/S5iix footage? A "crunchiness" vs the "calmness" as you put it? 

I want to dintinquish between what you are calling "calmness" based upon over-sharpening or other factors. Any frame grabs from your footage displying the issue would be helpful. 

All footage we've shot was with Vlog on GH6, GH7 and S5ii. I did not even try the Cined color profiles after reading they were even worse. 

The best way to describe the problem is that with original S5 you kind of wondered whether you needed to add a tad of sharpening even though footage looked perfectly ok already in Resolve. With S5ii it was like, damn that is maybe too sharp.

We shoot mostly climbing, so there is a lot of rock in most of the clips we take, and too sharp rock surface makes the frame look busy fast.

If I get the video finally edited I might share the link here as half of it is shot with GH6, GH7 and S5ii with many spherical lenses and one anamorphic lens, and the rest is shot with Z6iii. Though, looking a climbing video even from IQ perspective might be a bit boring if you are not a climber. 😅 

Here is a frame grab from Z6iii 6k50p NRaw, one GH7 5.7k50p frame, one S5ii 6k25p open gate macro frame and another S5ii 4k50p frame. The frames are only around 3000 × 1500 to keep file sizes small.

[ArashM]

@Jahleh Thank you for posting, wondering why did you go over to the Z6iii with mostly having a Lumix kit ?

[MrSMW]

10 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

The S1Rii having strong video features to me isn't a sign that there won't be a more video centric camera

Agreed.

10 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

It does raise the question as to how they'll differentiate a new S1H from it, but I don't think it means they'll just not release one.

I think the most likely route will be to combine the S1H with the EVA1 with that other unit that is rarely mentioned, the BS1H, ie, a modular box type unit.

Based on what know about the S1Rii, which is most of it, the 44mp sensor is an obvious choice?

Whether it then has internal ND that the market is crying out for or not remains to be seen but that would be big.

I'd be happy with an adapter between lens and body that exists for a few others (Canon?) if it cannot happen in body or at the expense of some other feature but I really think that the ommission of IBIS would be a mistake as it limits so many potential users.

Anyway, today is S1Rii reveal day so I am looking forward to seeing exactly what it is so I can make a decision and as of right now, I'm still on the fence...

For my video needs, I am covered with 1x S9 and 2x S5ii. This is set in stone and will not change. It. Just. Works.

For my stills needs, the options are:

A. No change ie, A7RV + 3x zoom lenses; Tamron 20-40, 28-75, 70-180 f2.8's.

B. Flip the above for S1Rii + 2x zoom lenses; Sigma 28-45mm f1.8 (indoor/low light), 28-105mm f2.8 (outdoor).

C. Stick with the A7RV, but flip the Tamron lenses for the Sigma lenses.

The first pro of the Sony/Tamron set up are; greater range at both the wide and long ends, though my need for either is marginal, especially with the Sony's ability to crop harder.

The second pro of the Sony is the 61mp sensor, the greater detail and ability to crop harder.

Third, I have it, so no fucking about changing system.

The only real 'cons' with the Sony are the lack of in camera crop markers and the more limited lower light capability of that sensor, especially combined with the f2.8 lenses. A flip to the Sigma f1.8 short zoom will resolve a lot of that.

The pros of the S1Rii are:

1. It brings everything in house. I still don't know about the batteries, but I'm guessing they are the same?

2. Has crop markers and I can also shoot stills that match my video LUTS SOOC.

3. It will have the new and shiny factor for at least the first job of the season.

The 'cons' of the new LUMIX are I wish they had used the 61mp sensor from the A7RV/SL-3 as expected.

My current thoughts are right now that the A7RV will make better use of those Sigma lenses and the S1Rii would be a better option for me if I could use it with those Tamron lenses!

The A7RV with the flip to the Sigma lenses is probably the best of the 3 options for me, both on paper and in the real world.

Final decision later today...

[Jahleh]

2 hours ago, ArashM said:

@Jahleh Thank you for posting, wondering why did you go over to the Z6iii with mostly having a Lumix kit ?

Ever since my wife got GH6 I wanted 4k100p and 6k50p for Full Frame. After trying GH7 I bought her as a present I could have settled to that too, but could not quite accept it being marginally worse in low light than S5ii. 
I also wanted to try Raw, so Z6iii seemed like a perfect choise.
GH7’s Prores RawHQ was also nice but at 3,5Gbps too heavy to store.

Bought the Z6iii and compared it to S5ii and then traded in the rest of my Lumix kit for Nikkor 50mm F1.2. The 6k50p NRaw is IQ wise closer what I wanted. Though, with Noise reduction NRaw is just as heavy to edit than having a speed warp on S5ii 6k25p😆 Also with 6k even on 4k timeline having only 16-18GB of RAM will lead to swapping on M3 Pro Macbook.

Still, Z6iii EVF is much better than what S5ii has, but IBIS is a bit worse. S5ii has slightly better DR, but in low light I’ve gotten better footage out of Z6iii. 

[ND64]

Press release is already leaked. These two features are new:

 

- A first for LUMIX cameras, it is capable of 8K video recording with a 14-level tone range

- Advanced video stabilization corrects EIS distortion without cropping, reducing peripheral distortion while preserving the original angle of view.

[Ninpo33]

32 minutes ago, ND64 said:

Press release is already leaked. These two features are new:

 

- A first for LUMIX cameras, it is capable of 8K video recording with a 14-level tone range

- Advanced video stabilization corrects EIS distortion without cropping, reducing peripheral distortion while preserving the original angle of view.

Yes, I think all of this was leaked days ago and back at the beginning of this thread. I'm liking the new lower price though, I sure hope that's true. $3298 is a very competitive process for all the features. 

[BTM_Pix]

Live stream for the launch event today