Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II coming soon

[Ninpo33]

2 hours ago, Walter H said:

Keep in mind that if you are also a stills shooter using Capture One and if you would need to upgrade C1 to use the S1Rii, you can preorder the camera from Adorama and between the free media and the discounted C1, it is a $3k camera.

This might be the first time I jump at the pre-order phase. No doubt there may be some realtive deals (open box or otherwise) by mid & late summer, but for the maybe couple hundred dollars of additional savings, I think this camera will be making my professional life much easier for months already. False color and switchable, discrete photo/video modes alone is worth several hundred over four months to me. Then pile on everything else.

Oh yeah for sure. I think it’s already a deal for what it can do and paying full price at launch for this one is easy. The $6800 Sony A1 is another story.
 

I buy a lot of open box/gently used gear from Japan on various shopping sites so I’ll probably wait for one of those to pop up in the next few months. They have a lot of 3 day sales with 10% - 15% off coupons and free shipping. Plus there’s no tax so it will be just under $3k very soon with the deal. 
 

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

But now at $2k the SL2 just isn't practical when the S1Rii can be had for just $3k or so. Same goes for the Sony A1 mk1. For $3k used and several years old now it feels like it's loosing its mojo for me compared to what's coming

It’s called ‘timing’ and ‘progress’ respectively isn’t it as in just a few months back, some of those older cameras might have made sense, but with march of time, increasingly less until such a point as they do not.

I don’t think we are quite at the ‘do not’ stage yet with those models, but launches like the S1Rii start to compete and once the prices drop and firmware upgrades happen, should make even more sense.

The SL2 with zero tilt screen option for one thing would just kill it for me.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I would say the 6K/60p of the S1R II is the mode that should have got the most attention in reviews though

But as it does 8k it gets all the chatter. I said it somewhere else above, but IMO they should have launched it as a 6k beast and locked all 8k function for say 3 months and opened that up with firmware.

But then there would probably have been as much furore over that choice!

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Once the dust dies down from the internet's outrage about rolling shutter, if it's the same or similar to the R4D 8K, I think that users are going to fall in love with the image

I suspect so.

Especially once prices dip below 3k.

I’m still not sure I would buy it for my needs because of the way I work and as my principal video unit, the S9 works better (minimal size & weight on a free-standing monopod) despite the S1Rii being a MUCH better camera in hand and full stop.

For stills, Z8 vs A7RV vs S1Rii, I could make a case for any but still favour the Sony, and not just because I have one. 

For video, as things stand, I would pick the Panny with the Z8 a very close second and the day it gets full LUT support is the day I would give the nod to the Nikon.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

But now at $2k the SL2 just isn't practical when the S1Rii can be had for just $3k or so. Same goes for the Sony A1 mk1. For $3k used and several years old now it feels like it's loosing its mojo for me compared to what's coming

It’s called ‘timing’ and ‘progress’ respectively isn’t it as in just a few months back, some of those older cameras might have made sense, but with march of time, increasingly less until such a point as they do not.

I don’t think we are quite at the ‘do not’ stage yet with those models, but launches like the S1Rii start to compete and once the prices drop and firmware upgrades happen, should make even more sense.

The SL2 with zero tilt screen option for one thing would just kill it for me.

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

I would say the 6K/60p of the S1R II is the mode that should have got the most attention in reviews though

But as it does 8k it gets all the chatter. I said it somewhere else above, but IMO they should have launched it as a 6k beast and locked all 8k function for say 3 months and opened that up with firmware.

But then there would probably have been as much furore over that choice!

5 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

Once the dust dies down from the internet's outrage about rolling shutter, if it's the same or similar to the R4D 8K, I think that users are going to fall in love with the image

I suspect so.

Especially once prices dip below 3k.

I’m still not sure I would buy it for my needs because of the way I work and as my principal video unit, the S9 works better (minimal size & weight on a free-standing monopod) despite the S1Rii being a MUCH better camera in hand and full stop.

For stills, Z8 vs A7RV vs S1Rii, I could make a case for any but still favour the Sony, and not just because I have one. 

For video, as things stand, I would pick the Panny with the Z8 a very close second and the day it gets full LUT support is the day I would give the nod to the Nikon.

[Ninpo33]

27 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

It’s called ‘timing’ and ‘progress’ respectively isn’t it as in just a few months back, some of those older cameras might have made sense, but with march of time, increasingly less until such a point as they do not.

I don’t think we are quite at the ‘do not’ stage yet with those models, but launches like the S1Rii start to compete and once the prices drop and firmware upgrades happen, should make even more sense.

The SL2 with zero tilt screen option for one thing would just kill it for me.

Yeah, for sure. I mean, that’s why I’ve been waiting over a year for the high res stills body and not bought anything. I just wish this camera came out two years ago LOL. 

While waiting for all the Panasonic S2.0 bodies I got impatient and bid on two different SL2 models on eBay. They both went above $2k and ended up above  $2400 with tax and fees. For me the $2k was kind of a psychological barrier that I could justify the camera at. I also bid on three different S1R models and ended up winning a great deal on one that ended up being a scam. The S1R’s I was going for under $1,200 all in. I need high res stills and need the second body to shoot solid 4k video. Ideally to be a full on second video camera when needed. Because the SL2 has Log and the S1R doesn’t I was after the SL2, plus I’ve always loved the design of the SL series and could justify the extra $$$. And the SL3 and SL3-S are just totally gimped and the $6k prices are a joke. 
 

But now…? After the S1Rii the SL2 just feels stupid even at $2k. It’s not just the 8k but it’s all the new 2021 - 2025 advancements we’re getting. Even something as simple as shooting to SSD’s and 32 bit float actually change my workflow in pretty substantial ways. I’ll be selling some lenses and other gear soon and pretty excited to upgrade soon. If and when the S1Hii drops the S1Rii becomes a solid B-Cam 
 

 

[MrSMW]

I had the debate myself over SL2 vs S1R a few years back but in my case the need was primarily hi res stills and only a secondary need for video and at the time, not log.

The S1R easily won that argument. It was, for stills at least, a better, but 1/2 price SL2, though the Leica beat it on design and badge. Obviously.

But time marches on and though many of us consider the S1R and S1H well overdue and this latest launch is not quite what many hoped for, but cut out all the hysterics and simply ask yourself, "is this a good piece of kit for my needs?" and that is the only bit of info that is actually relevant.

I have warmed to it and could make a case for it, but still wish it had been 60mp+ for my own selfish reasons!

[Ninpo33]

29 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I had the debate myself over SL2 vs S1R a few years back but in my case the need was primarily hi res stills and only a secondary need for video and at the time, not log.

The S1R easily won that argument. It was, for stills at least, a better, but 1/2 price SL2, though the Leica beat it on design and badge. Obviously.

But time marches on and though many of us consider the S1R and S1H well overdue and this latest launch is not quite what many hoped for, but cut out all the hysterics and simply ask yourself, "is this a good piece of kit for my needs?" and that is the only bit of info that is actually relevant.

I have warmed to it and could make a case for it, but still wish it had been 60mp+ for my own selfish reasons!

I agree, 61mp with three different modes for stills (like the SL3) would have been great but not with the same sensor as the SL3. I guess they waited long enough to try sort out a decent readout speed and in the end I’m glad they went with the sensor and lower pixels to make it a better hybrid. I can live with 44mp or so but if I already had the 61mp Sony I would be in the same boat as you and wouldn’t feel the need to upgrade. If I shot more sports, events or weddings I would have already bought an A7RV and made do with the weaker video specs. Good news is that GFX100s is at $2,500 now so it’s becoming a tight little race indeed. 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Ninpo33 said:

Good news is that GFX100s is at $2,500 now so it’s becoming a tight little race indeed

Don't get me thinking about that one!

That's been in and out of my shopping basket numerous times and in some ways, is the ultimate option for stills. My stills needs anyway.

The ONLY thing that has really stopped me has been lenses. Just how do I get a small/light/compact kit that can cover everything from 20-200mm providing nothing slower than f2.8 FF equivalent and no smaller than 24mp at the long end...

With MF Fuji, the body can do it, but the lens/whole system, not quite, or rather the compromises are ones that I am not prepared to make.

Having said that, a pair of the things with a set of 3-4 primes and... aaaaargh, nooooooo. 

Change for me at this point in time has to bring something quantifiably useful because my needs have already been met.

It's interesting looking though and I think sensible to at least look at any and all options because that in itself can sometimes provide a creative aspect not previously considered. So I look and I consider.

 

[eatstoomuchjam]

29 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The ONLY thing that has really stopped me has been lenses. Just how do I get a small/light/compact kit that can cover everything from 20-200mm providing nothing slower than f2.8 FF equivalent and no smaller than 24mp at the long end...

If you wanted smaller/lighter and soemthing where you could just rock two bodies with a lens each and never swap, you could probably get by with the 20-35/4 and the 45-100/4 and nothing else.  I have no personal experience with those lenses, though.  Technically, you'd be a little above an f/2.8 FF equivalent, but not in a way that matters much (except maybe at the long end where cropping would have you closer to an f/4 equivalent).

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

If you wanted smaller/lighter and soemthing where you could just rock two bodies with a lens each and never swap, you could probably get by with the 20-35/4 and the 45-100/4 and nothing else.  I have no personal experience with those lenses, though.  Technically, you'd be a little above an f/2.8 FF equivalent, but not in a way that matters much (except maybe at the long end where cropping would have you closer to an f/4 equivalent).

And this is where it falls apart for me...

As a 'one & done', a single body with longer of those two zooms is OK...to a point...the 100mm in MF point being not even half the reach I need.

Could I compensate with cropping? Yes, that's why I prefer a high MP camera for stills, but even 100mp is pushing it a bit taking what is an approx 80mm lens in FF terms, to well over double that and f4 for anything low light, (which can be quite a bit of my work), is borderline too slow. I had and used the LUMIX f4 24-105 and it was not the best experience other than outdoor and day time.

And this is the 'weakness' of MF for me, - the sheer physics over 100mm in FF terms, - it just gets too big, too heavy and too slow. For my specific needs.

On the other hand, the 2 body approach could work, but is utterly dependant on each unit being much more compact and light over a single 'one & done', though the combined size & weight of 2 units might be more. 

For a 2 body approach to work, it HAS to be primes only and something no bigger ideally than Sigma's f2 range, so their 20/24/35/50/65 and jumping up to 90mm, f2.8.

On a body ideally no bigger than A7RV or at a push, Z8, a set of 4 would work for me and of course these are native to Sony and almost native adapted to Nikon, but to Fuji GFX, I don't think so?

And even if a workaround could be found, it comes back to the same thing and that is, "then what is the point?" as in you switched from one solution to another that doesn't benefit you in any way so why?

Same as I love the idea of a Hasselblad X2D prime set up, - I would absolutely love it...but I think more with a rose tinted spectacle approach than a real world one. And that is without considering the cost!

So right now, the SL3 for me still remains the single best option all factors except cost considered and that is where it does not and cannot work for me. A pair of those with a 4x prime Sigma set up would be nuts, but nuts beyond my means.

My A7RV to me is my 'poor man's SL3'. And it is a very fabulous poor man's SL3 so until such time as something significant changes, it remains in it's role.

[PannySVHS]

Yes, readout at 6K60p is faster than for 8Kround with 15.5ms. @Andrew Reid

Pixel to pixel 4K120 should provide same resolution as it does on Sony FX3 and A7SIII. The S1RII has a 2x cropped gate in 4K120 pretty much the same as a FX30 in 4K120.

With the higher sensitivity and dynamic range of the sensor it could possibly mean only one stop of higher noise in this 2x cropped 4K120 mode at isos up to 12800, compared to the full sensor 16 to 9 gate of the FX3 and A7SIII and one stop better than the FX30 or a GH6/7. But that's an estimation. Tests will show.

Colour and a high resolving unsharpened image with good latitude regarding textures and colour could be strengths of the S1RIII.

[PannySVHS]

That 135mm looks pretty. Thanks for posting. What camera do you use the 90 and 135mm with? @Ninpo33

[eatstoomuchjam]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

For a 2 body approach to work, it HAS to be primes only and something no bigger ideally than Sigma's f2 range, so their 20/24/35/50/65 and jumping up to 90mm, f2.8.

I don't know if any primes for the GF system are even close to as small as Sigma's f2 range - and that includes the 50/3.5 which is, as GF lenses go, pretty tiny.

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

And even if a workaround could be found, it comes back to the same thing and that is, "then what is the point?" as in you switched from one solution to another that doesn't benefit you in any way so why?

It won't benefit you at all.  For the sort of work you're doing, full frame is most likely the sweet spot for still photos (and maybe APS-C for video?).  The A7R V is a hell of a camera and 61 megapixels is way more than enough.

 

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I don't know if any primes for the GF system are even close to as small as Sigma's f2 range - and that includes the 50/3.5 which is, as GF lenses go, pretty tiny.

Exactamundo. I know there are a couple of FF primes that work on the GFX due it being 'not quite medium format', but I'd need a range that met my needs and ideally, all one single line.

This is why as things stand, in a few weeks, for my S9, I will be picking up the LUMIX; 18mm f1.8, the 50mm f1.8 and then undecided but either the 85mm f1.8 or the 100mm f2.8, all over the Sigma range.

I prefer the Sigmas, especially for photo, but I'm looking at this as head over heart and those boring looking, but consistent size, weight, filter thread, fast silent focusing dullard LUMIX's have to win in this situation.

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

It won't benefit you at all.  For the sort of work you're doing, full frame is most likely the sweet spot for still photos (and maybe APS-C for video?).  The A7R V is a hell of a camera and 61 megapixels is way more than enough.

 

Not without the glass, but well, physics.

I'd rather it had 100mp though just for the insane cropping.

Right now, I have a single with 3 zooms and with my Mr Sensible head on, no better option.

However, if his alter ego Captain Sensible (look him up if you don't know) takes charge of the ship, a pair of the things with a set of 4 Sigma primes might just become more attractive...

The Zf would have to go to make room however and I'm not sure about that at this time.

[BTM_Pix]

6 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Exactamundo. I know there are a couple of FF primes that work on the GFX due it being 'not quite medium format', but I'd need a range that met my needs and ideally, all one single line.

Someone has made and maintains a spreadsheet guide to the coverage (or not) of lenses on the GFX.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxvvpxJ9QVFFyh0pW2rs9KBmUW9vlh-d-VnbcLDCTn8/edit?usp=sharing
 

 

[BTM_Pix]

9 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

However, if his alter ego Captain Sensible (look him up if you don't know) takes charge of the ship, a pair of the things with a set of 4 Sigma primes might just become more attractive...

So many options torturing you.

I bet you can’t wait for full solution so you’ll be Glad It’s All Over.

[MrSMW]

1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

I bet you can’t wait for full solution so you’ll be Glad It’s All Over.

Don't think I didn't see what you did there 😜

[MrSMW]

4 minutes ago, BTM_Pix said:

Someone has made and maintains a spreadsheet guide to the coverage (or not) of lenses on the GFX.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uxvvpxJ9QVFFyh0pW2rs9KBmUW9vlh-d-VnbcLDCTn8/edit?usp=sharing
 

 

I took a look, but the immediate migraine made me want to go and have a lie down.

I'll get Emmanuel to translate and give a concise breakdown.

[BTM_Pix]

Summerando makes it muchio choosy in the optica cover snuggle width vicinity maximus.

Deep Joy

[eatstoomuchjam]

39 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I took a look, but the immediate migraine made me want to go and have a lie down.

I'll get Emmanuel to translate and give a concise breakdown.

Not to take his job, but the tl;dr is that less than 50mm focal length has very very few entries which cover without vignetting.  The wider, the fewer.  Above 50mm, it increases quickly.

[newfoundmass]

I really do think this is a solid release. I do hope that we get more overheating tests and if there is an issue a firmware update to somehow fix it. Having overheating issues with active cooling is wild.

I do think I'll end up picking up a S1R. Having a higher resolution stills camera for taking promotional photos of performers in higher resolution could be really useful.