ND64 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Walter H said: Most striking to me was the shadow noise comparison with a backlit subject Panasonic uses NR on still RAW in a still oriented camera, let alone video. Reviewers bash Nikon for its h.265 implementation that doesn't allow to disable NR, but say nothing when Canon/Panasonic doesn't allow to disable it on RAW! Juank and ita149 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter H Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 51 minutes ago, ND64 said: Panasonic uses NR on still RAW in a still oriented camera, let alone video. Reviewers bash Nikon for its h.265 implementation that doesn't allow to disable NR, but say nothing when Canon/Panasonic doesn't allow to disable it on RAW! I hear you. I was also disappointed to see the newly released DPR studio results clearly indicating that. The Nikon NEF file holds more detail at higher ISO for sure. When it comes to H.265, it is all about implimentation and we'll have to see what is not enough vs what is too much in real use. I'm not ready to make a judgement yet. The H.265 in the Z8 has been criticized for smearing and in time Panasonic might be skewered for being too aggressive with NR too, but on the contrary, I've yet to hear of compromises in detail with the S1Rii. This still is from Cam Mackey's recent video. Skip to 19:45 for more of this. Ninpo33 and ita149 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter H Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 And don't worry, this thread might be dead soon anyway. 😉 Our beloved source of all things rumor has just announced a video-centric, 24mp camera will be revealed by Panasonic in April. Let's see. Ninpo33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Yes, 2 new cameras coming in the next 3-4 months. The video oriented one expected in April may have Nikon Z6 III stacked sensor. Plus S1R II preorders are more than expected. Good news for Panasonic / Lumix. I hope Panasonic / Lumix will have more success and market share in camera business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 18 Administrators Share Posted March 18 12 minutes ago, stephen said: Plus S1R II preorders are more than expected. Said no camera company ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 18 Administrators Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, Walter H said: I hear you. I was also disappointed to see the newly released DPR studio results clearly indicating that. The Nikon NEF file holds more detail at higher ISO for sure. When it comes to H.265, it is all about implimentation and we'll have to see what is not enough vs what is too much in real use. I'm not ready to make a judgement yet. The H.265 in the Z8 has been criticized for smearing and in time Panasonic might be skewered for being too aggressive with NR too, but on the contrary, I've yet to hear of compromises in detail with the S1Rii. This still is from Cam Mackey's recent video. Skip to 19:45 for more of this. Interesting but it needs a bit of explaining, aka how were they exposed, how far are the shadows being pushed, and what bitrates in 8K h.265, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 18 Administrators Share Posted March 18 That's always one of the problems with the R for resolution cameras. Always a better video one coming a bit later. Ninpo33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter H Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 9 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: Interesting but it needs a bit of explaining, aka how were they exposed, how far are the shadows being pushed, and what bitrates in 8K h.265, and so on. Agree 100%. 4 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said: That's always one of the problems with the R for resolution cameras. Always a better video one coming a bit later. Problem and an opportunity: problem for everyone who wants a video-capable-forward camera first (and I get that this is a film-making/video first forum); opportunity for others like me who very much need a advanced hybrid camera that can be a workhorse for high-quality stills too. If this release for the S1Rii would not have been on the horizon for another four to six months, I'd likely have a Z8 in hand now while my bank balance would be crying about another system switch. newfoundmass and ArashM 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcio Kabke Pinheiro Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 On 3/15/2025 at 9:08 AM, ita149 said: Like in the Manny Ortiz's review, the S1RII seems really noisier than the last Sony cameras for stills. It's interesting because most ambassadors said the noise is very low in video. Manny just released a video saying that he made a mistake about the noise is stiils. According to him, he made the comparison opening all the files in Lightroom - he found surprising that Adobe have compatibility on day one with the new camera. But Panasonic told them after that Adobe jumped the gun and the drivers were not optimized yet - and that he should compare in Capture One, because in C1 they worked together and the drivers were right. After he opened the files from Panasonic in C1, the noise problem was gone, and the files from the three cameras, bar from color differences, were "indistinguishable". In fact, what cought his attention is that the files from all the cameras were much better (color, details, rendering) in C1 than in Lightroom... ntblowz, Ninpo33, Walter H and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 Just now, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said: Manny just released a video saying that he made a mistake about the noise is stiils. According to him, he made the comparison opening all the files in Lightroom - he found surprising that Adobe have compatibility on day one with the new camera. But Panasonic told them after that Adobe jumped the gun and the drivers were not optimized yet - and that he should compare in Capture One, because in C1 they worked together and the drivers were right. After he opened the files from Panasonic in C1, the noise problem was gone, and the files from the three cameras, bar from color differences, were "indistinguishable". In fact, what cought his attention is that the files from all the cameras were much better (color, details, rendering) in C1 than in Lightroom... Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted March 18 Share Posted March 18 17 minutes ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said: files from all the cameras were much better (color, details, rendering) in C1 than in Lightroom... Not necessarily...if you batch run them through something like DxO PureRaw...which is what I do, and then import the results into Lightroom... All my cameras and lenses are covered on V2 as things stand and I think they may be up to V4 now? V3 at least and whatever V they are on, probably doesn't do S1Rii files yet? And if not, they will soon. But for me, it's just a no-brainer, - batch run an entire folder of raw files which get spat out the other end as DNG's. OK, the DNG's are bigger but I eventually chuck away the raw files and just keep the DNG's and the finished Jpegs after I have then personally fiddled with them in Lightroom. I prefer Lightroom's cataloguing system and interface, but that might be because I have been using it for a decade or so! Ninpo33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 15 hours ago, ND64 said: Panasonic uses NR on still RAW in a still oriented camera, let alone video. Reviewers bash Nikon for its h.265 implementation that doesn't allow to disable NR, but say nothing when Canon/Panasonic doesn't allow to disable it on RAW! According to Manny Ortiz, LR doesn't support entirerly the S1RII,the files have much more noise at low ISO than with C1. Maybe the NR issue at high ISO on Dpreview is also related to LR ? About video, I saw a post on Reddit where 55M said the S1RII has better detail rendering than the S5II (closer to the first gen) but with some chroma NR left. Maybe I should just cancel my pre-order and wait for the new camera in April. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wushuliu Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, ita149 said: According to Manny Ortiz, LR doesn't support entirerly the S1RII,the files have much more noise at low ISO than with C1. Maybe the NR issue at high ISO on Dpreview is also related to LR ? About video, I saw a post on Reddit where 55M said the S1RII has better detail rendering than the S5II (closer to the first gen) but with some chroma NR left. Maybe I should just cancel my pre-order and wait for the new camera in April. Either you want a high resolution hybrid camera or not, 'cause the April camera looks to be a very, very different camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, wushuliu said: Either you want a high resolution hybrid camera or not, 'cause the April camera looks to be a very, very different camera. I'm ok with 24MP as long as the video is not over processed like on the S5II. The thing is I have not the money to buy both cameras. Beside, I have zero brand loyalty and cameras like the R5, R5II or Z8 have high resolution and still good rolling shutter and very good detail in video since they have internal raw with no crop. I just want to make the good choice, I wanted to cancel my pre-order but Panasonic seems to have delayed the S1RII shipments, so for now I kept the preorder in hope to get the spec of the new camera before the S1RII shipments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND64 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 2 hours ago, ita149 said: Maybe the NR issue at high ISO on Dpreview is also related to LR ? NR is not an issue. It's a strategy to satisfy that part of the market that is obsessed with noise, with the price of making others who prefer data integrity angry; and apparently that sounds reasonable compromise for some camera companies. However, I don't know what's going on with DPR's studio shot that even at base ISO, there is noticeable difference in resolution (not sharpness) compared to similar sensors: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 19 Administrators Share Posted March 19 15 hours ago, Walter H said: Agree 100%. Problem and an opportunity: problem for everyone who wants a video-capable-forward camera first (and I get that this is a film-making/video first forum); opportunity for others like me who very much need a advanced hybrid camera that can be a workhorse for high-quality stills too. If this release for the S1Rii would not have been on the horizon for another four to six months, I'd likely have a Z8 in hand now while my bank balance would be crying about another system switch. I think if people are spending $3500+ they also want a future proof camera. The S1R II sensor is a Sony IMX366, right? That will be mid-range at best in a year when it is featured in the a7 V around the $2k or 2.5k mark. Anyway let's see what Panasonic bring in April, and if they get the S1H Mark II right. For me the sensor or image quality has never been the main problem with Lumix cameras anyway... all fine and some of the best video quality in V-LOG. Since the s5 the main issue has been the long wait for new stuff, AF behind the curve, poor lens adapter performance, and an unimaginative product line-up that neither feels or looks either high-end or creative. (Unlike, say an X-Pro3 / Sigma Fp / Z8) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 6 minutes ago, ND64 said: NR is not an issue. It's a strategy to satisfy that part of the market that is obsessed with noise, with the price of making others who prefer data integrity angry; and apparently that sounds reasonable compromise for some camera companies. However, I don't know what's going on with DPR's studio shot that even at base ISO, there is noticeable difference in resolution (not sharpness) compared to similar sensors: Yet, it's clearly an issue for me and for a lot of people. The difference in resolution is maybe due to the lens. But I think they used the 85mm Sigma f1.4 DG DN, which is not a bad lens at all. There is still a possibility than the S1RII uses some processing at low ISO to reduce noise even more, it could explain why the resolution is worse. On the Slashcam video, the Z8 seems much sharper in 8k than the S1RII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted March 19 Administrators Share Posted March 19 That could just be a bug in Adobe Camera Raw which fails to completely turn off NR. But in the Slashcam video, can you link to it? I am curious about that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: That could just be a bug in Adobe Camera Raw which fails to completely turn off NR. But in the Slashcam video, can you link to it? I am curious about that one. Yes I hope it is just a bug with ACR. Here is the link : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter H Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said: I think if people are spending $3500+ they also want a future proof camera. The S1R II sensor is a Sony IMX366, right? That will be mid-range at best in a year when it is featured in the a7 V around the $2k or 2.5k mark. I hear you. And a year from now the S1Rii will have made me that difference in price many times over with much less effort than my current camera - an S1 that I bought new in the spring of 2019 that had paid for itself within months of its purchase. There just aren't bad choices. There are preferences. There are more optimal choices. But there really are not bad ones. I am very interested to see and read about people's direct experiences once the cameras are in hand and can make their own evaluations beyond interpreting the internet. The camera has compromises that I believe I'm willing to live with. I am psyched to learn along with others how to best deal with them. Ninpo33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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