ita149 Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 I just tried Capture One with the files from DPreview above ISO 3200 and it shows the same smoothed out details than with LR, maybe even worse. "It trounces the A7RV at high ISO which can't even match the A7RIII. It's cleaner than the Z8 at high ISO and the A1 too". It seems the cheating of Panasonic works great and there is little doubt the camera is doing the same in video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alt Shoo Posted March 19 Share Posted March 19 On 3/17/2025 at 11:53 PM, Ninpo33 said: Nah, you missed my points big time. I kind of feel like you have an idea about things and aren’t really looking to hear or grow from other peoples experiences but just keep doubling down on your own hot takes. That’s fine. For clarification, the DP I mentioned who was well versed in post production was shooting to get exactly what he needed and not wasting time with shots or elements they weren’t going to use. The only reason he was that efficient was because he was dialed in to how to best achieve what he needed and how to use after effects so well. He wasn’t “fixing it in post”. He was “shooting for the edit” not for “excessive coverage” and wasting everyone’s time. Much like how David Fincher works if your familiar with his subtle use of VFX in narrative storytelling. And the other DP/Operator was an ass. He bought an FX6 and a barely knew how to use it but would book jobs anyway and literally be reading the manuals on breaks in between takes. He was lost, but definitely not in technical specs. When you say that pros aren’t on here talking about camera gear, how do you know? Do you know who’s on here and what they do? Also, many of the guys I’m friends with here in LA go to trade shows and meet up at companies when new products come out. They beta test stuff and talk directly to the engineers and then we all chat about it over dinner or coffee. You’re way off if you think the conversations don’t sound like how we talk here. Camera guys nerd out on camera gear, they just do it in private circles with other pros. Got it, I see what you’re saying about the DP shooting for the edit rather than fixing things in post. That’s a solid approach when you know exactly what you need, and I respect that. As for pros not talking about gear, I’m not saying they never do. Of course, people in the industry test and discuss new tech, but the difference is that those conversations usually focus on how the gear serves the work, not endless debates over minor details that don’t make or break a project. I don’t have an issue with people being passionate about cameras, I just think the discussion gets lost when it’s more about obsessing over specs than actually applying them to real world filmmaking. Ninpo33 and 92F 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninpo33 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 8 hours ago, Alt Shoo said: I don’t have an issue with people being passionate about cameras, I just think the discussion gets lost when it’s more about obsessing over specs than actually applying them to real world filmmaking. I hear that. There's always a balance and you're right that getting stuck in the theoretical is no good for anyone if it's not ever put into practical application. I guess for me I try to remember that there are camera specs that I don't care about but other people use those same specs daily in a high pressure environment. The S1Rii got everyone's attention because it's a true hybrid and was about a year too late. Because of that everyone was keen to really dive in and see if it was for them. Also, it's hard to achieve the high res - low noise - good DR balance so everyone is putting it under the microscope to see if it balances those things out as well as the Z8 or A1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntblowz Posted March 20 Author Share Posted March 20 On 3/19/2025 at 10:28 PM, Andrew Reid said: Since the s5 the main issue has been the long wait for new stuff, AF behind the curve, poor lens adapter performance, and an unimaginative product line-up that neither feels or looks either high-end or creative. (Unlike, say an X-Pro3 / Sigma Fp / Z8) Lumix S1 with the latest update seems have finally improved adapter lens performance (yes still get updated in year 2025, 6 years after release...!) They might be late but better than never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted Saturday at 08:17 PM Administrators Share Posted Saturday at 08:17 PM On 3/20/2025 at 7:04 PM, ntblowz said: Lumix S1 with the latest update seems have finally improved adapter lens performance (yes still get updated in year 2025, 6 years after release...!) They might be late but better than never. Has it been improved from unworkable, to crap? Ninpo33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtol Posted Sunday at 08:51 PM Share Posted Sunday at 08:51 PM On 3/22/2025 at 4:17 PM, Andrew Reid said: Has it been improved from unworkable, to crap? What's the issue with adapter performance? I have the Sigma MC21 and Fotodiox Vizelux EF-L and I haven't had any real issues with either. ade towell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND64 Posted Tuesday at 03:42 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 03:42 PM Almost no DR advantage for being non stacked! I don't know it shows Panasonic got it wrong, or Nikon did a great job with its stacked design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted Tuesday at 04:38 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 04:38 PM 1 hour ago, ND64 said: Almost no DR advantage for being non stacked! I don't know it shows Panasonic got it wrong, or Nikon did a great job with its stacked design 3600€ with average DR for a non stacked sensor, cropped Prores-raw and 2s only H-Speed burst, it's disappointing to say the least. Mine has been shipped today and yet I have not pre-ordered the camera in the first days. I hope at least the video engine has improved since the S5II. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted Tuesday at 09:06 PM Administrators Share Posted Tuesday at 09:06 PM On 3/23/2025 at 9:51 PM, mtol said: What's the issue with adapter performance? I have the Sigma MC21 and Fotodiox Vizelux EF-L and I haven't had any real issues with either. On my S5 II the performance with EF lenses was totally unreliable in terms of autofocus in video mode. 2015 problems in 2025 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eatstoomuchjam Posted Tuesday at 09:46 PM Share Posted Tuesday at 09:46 PM 5 hours ago, ND64 said: Almost no DR advantage for being non stacked! I don't know it shows Panasonic got it wrong, or Nikon did a great job with its stacked design I don't know - whatever "read noise (e-)" and "saturation (e-)" are, they seem much better on the Panasonic at the same ISO value in general (except 400?) and especially at the lower ISO's, they seem much better - and DR seems better at every ISO as well. "Does a bit better than a camera that many consider to be one of the industry leaders" is not nearly a condemnation that would lead me to say that Panasonic got it wrong. 😃 Ninpo33 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND64 Posted yesterday at 06:28 AM Share Posted yesterday at 06:28 AM 8 hours ago, eatstoomuchjam said: I don't know - whatever "read noise (e-)" and "saturation (e-)" are, they seem much better on the Panasonic at the same ISO value in general (except 400?) and especially at the lower ISO's, they seem much better - and DR seems better at every ISO as well. "Does a bit better than a camera that many consider to be one of the industry leaders" is not nearly a condemnation that would lead me to say that Panasonic got it wrong. 😃 If the sensor is non stacked BSI, read noise should be lower. A7Rm5 read noise at base ISO is just 3.4e. So despite higher resolution (smaller pixels), has almost half stop better DR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ac6000cw Posted yesterday at 07:10 AM Share Posted yesterday at 07:10 AM 35 minutes ago, ND64 said: If the sensor is non stacked BSI, read noise should be lower. A7Rm5 read noise at base ISO is just 3.4e. So despite higher resolution (smaller pixels), has almost half stop better DR. Where is this sensor performance data coming from? It looks like you're quoting it from a website somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ita149 Posted yesterday at 08:04 AM Share Posted yesterday at 08:04 AM Even High-Res mode looks weird : https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=panasonic_dcs1r&attr13_1=panasonic_dcs1rii&attr13_2=panasonic_dcs5&attr13_3=panasonic_dcs1&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=jpeg&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=80&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&attr126_0=2&attr126_1=2&attr126_2=2&attr126_3=2&normalization=full&widget=1&x=0.3414324606472479&y=0.0861985472154965 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Andrew Reid Posted yesterday at 12:02 PM Administrators Share Posted yesterday at 12:02 PM The JPEG engine seems to be about as competent at handling sensitive details as Trump's defence pick. The artefacts also depend on what the ISO is. Big difference between even just 80 and 100... Keep your eye on top-right square... ISO 80 ISO 100 And now at ISO 3200 the lines come back but still with smudgy areas where you'd least expect them to be. So odd... One thing present in all the pixel shift high-res shots is a horrific amount of over-sharpening compared to the OG S5, causing the dark black outline on text for example below... And all this on a photography orientated high-res model. Although to be fair the original S5 JPEGs have this as well in pixel shift mode. MurtlandPhoto and ita149 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ND64 Posted yesterday at 05:06 PM Share Posted yesterday at 05:06 PM 9 hours ago, ac6000cw said: Where is this sensor performance data coming from? It looks like you're quoting it from a website somewhere. https://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/RN_e.htm After you selected the camera, click on the name above the chart, it opens the table As you see in R5m2 all points are triangles, meaning noise reduction on RAW at all ISO settings. ac6000cw and Walter H 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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