Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II coming soon

[IronFilm]

8 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

FX9 is low end?

It's definitely within the spectrum of low / mid range when it comes to professional shoots. It's a common enough camera choice for reality tv / docos / corporate videography / etc 

 

[mtol]

I will likely go back and forth on whether the S1RII appeals to me but I recently was reminded not to lust after gear. I've got an S1 and S1H currently and I bought an S5 and eventually an S5II hoping to replace these, sensing size and weight were the only real drawbacks of the S1 bodies. I sold both the S5 and S5II almost immediately, for usability reasons (worse viewfinder and screen) and because of the picture being over-sharp on the S5II.

I had somehow convinced myself that a newer camera would spark my creativity, as I am currently in a creative rut. This was misguided.

The S1 and S1H are still excellent cameras and they produce an image that feels special to me still. They also feel somewhat indestructible compared to the S5 style bodies. I used them primarily to film a major documentary, along with a GH5 and a slew of other cameras over the years including Canon C300 marks I & II, 6D & 5DIII.

In color correction, I learned how little the camera matters compared to what you capture, outside of the quality of life improvements and build quality (the C300II actually broke from use at the hot shoe mount). Even some quality of life improvements should be met with apprehension. IBIS has ruined some of my shots with weird motion artifacts - the days of a loupe and hand grip on my 6D netted some pretty stunning motion.

Among all the cameras I've shot with, I found the most usable camera overall was the GH5 - and if I was to embark on a similar documentary project today and had budget for a new camera, I'd probably lean towards a GH7 for its versatility and portability. I think the GH7 actually represents the most unique value proposition in Lumix's line - for run and gun documentary, with 32bit audio and a 12-60 or 12-100 lens, I don't think it can be beat. Of course, I don't want to go through the process of re-acquiring all the MFT glass and adapters I've now sold.

For me, the S1RII's reduced size and weight, improved high ISO performance, 32bit audio would be significant quality of life upgrades - but the trade-offs of higher heat sensitivity, lower battery, and a huge hole in my wallet would not be worthwhile. I mean, I'll want one, as is the case with every new camera I see, but will it actually improve my work? Not at all.

[Ninpo33]

17 hours ago, Walter H said:

That's how I read it, which is why I would treat this as a 4K/C4K camera. As others have mentioned, I wish they would have delivered a 6K camera with less RS and 4:2:2 rather than prioritize an 8K "benchmark". But they didn't.

I mean, you’re probably describing the next video centric camera right? S1h2 either in box form or new flagship body. Full frame LUMIX version of the X-H2s would be a hit in my opinion. 

[Ninpo33]

10 hours ago, mtol said:

Among all the cameras I've shot with, I found the most usable camera overall was the GH5 - and if I was to embark on a similar documentary project today and had budget for a new camera, I'd probably lean towards a GH7 for its versatility and portability. I think the GH7 actually represents the most unique value proposition in Lumix's line - for run and gun documentary, with 32bit audio and a 12-60 or 12-100 lens, I don't think it can be beat. Of course, I don't want to go through the process of re-acquiring all the MFT glass and adapters I've now sold.

I shot two short docs and part of a feature length doc on the GH5 and GH5s and wow, I’m surprised how often I miss those cameras. I had the GH5 with the Sigma 18-35mm and metabones speedbooster. And the GH5s had a few of the m43 Leica Primes and adapted Contax Zeiss glass, also on a speedbooster. Fast, small, light and pack able for air travel. Such a solid kit. Had the GX85 as my little BTS camera and would use it as a back up/3rd angle a lot on interviews. Or mount it up in the ceiling for weird overhead angles. Tiny little 4k beast with surprisingly good IBIS for back then. 
 

I do feel like we’ve lost something from that era. GH4 to S1H era was peak LUMIX. Everything back then felt well thought out and I was always blown away with the host of features. These days it’s different. I’m also hoping the S1Rii ends up being worth the purchase, I think it suits me and what I need. 

[John Matthews]

For video, this is the most important feature of this high MP camera: 

 

[ita149]

10 hours ago, mtol said:

I will likely go back and forth on whether the S1RII appeals to me but I recently was reminded not to lust after gear. I've got an S1 and S1H currently and I bought an S5 and eventually an S5II hoping to replace these, sensing size and weight were the only real drawbacks of the S1 bodies. I sold both the S5 and S5II almost immediately, for usability reasons (worse viewfinder and screen) and because of the picture being over-sharp on the S5II.
 

Yes, the S1 is the camera I use the most, excellent video quality, no oversharpening or smoothed out details like on the S5II.

I have owned all the GH cameras, and for me the best one was the GH5 (and also the GH4). I still use the GH5 a lot.
The very organic look of the Open Gate in the GH5 and the possibility to use it at 60fps is great. 
I was somewhat disappointed by the GH6, G9II and GH7, there is something about detail rendering I don't like, in 4K there is sometimes a lack of detail, of course the GH5 is not perfect either and still has sharpening at 0 in V-log or -5 with 709 profiles, but at least fine details are not altered. In Open gate/5,7K while there are plenty of details on the new cameras I still see a bit of bad sharpening like I on the S5II.
Internal Prores raw on the GH7 fix the issue but the files are really huge, need to be recorded in V-log and there is no support for Resolve SOOC. 
This is why I use the GH5 most of the time with my m43 lenses, never had any issue with AF on the 10-25mm and 25-50mm in good light, can't say the same about the GH6 with low fps recording mode. 
Special mention to the G9II though, it is really a joy to use with the 20mm f1.7, thanks to the PDAF and the relatively lightweight of this combo.

[IronFilm]

13 hours ago, mtol said:

I had somehow convinced myself that a newer camera would spark my creativity, as I am currently in a creative rut. This was misguided.

Sometimes going backwards can even "inspire your creativity"!

Tomorrow I plan to shoot some photos of a running race using my ex's old Nikon D90

 

[Andrew Reid]

15 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It's definitely within the spectrum of low / mid range when it comes to professional shoots. It's a common enough camera choice for reality tv / docos / corporate videography / etc 

I see, so low end compared to ARRI.

[John Matthews]

5 hours ago, Ninpo33 said:

I do feel like we’ve lost something from that era. GH4 to S1H era was peak LUMIX. Everything back then felt well thought out and I was always blown away with the host of features. These days it’s different. I’m also hoping the S1Rii ends up being worth the purchase, I think it suits me and what I need. 

Back then, capturing detailed video was the priority—and the GH4 made that possible. As a bonus, it also eliminated many of the moiré issues we were dealing with. Over time, our focus shifted to achieving high-quality, detailed video with a shallow depth of field. Later, IBIS became the next major step forward.

Panasonic has been at the forefront of all these innovations. The only real drawback was autofocus in video, which eventually became the defining feature on YouTube. This killed their sales.

Fast forward to today, and most cameras have nearly everything—but Panasonic still excels in IBIS, video tools, and in-camera photographic features. Their autofocus is only slightly behind, if at all (in fact, they lag in AF far less than other brands do in IBIS, video tools, and built-in photography features). Their image quality is second to none. If there’s something drastically better that justifies a significant price jump, I’d love to hear what it is.

Sure, rolling shutter can be an issue. So can slow motion. But even Panasonic would probably agree—if those are your top priorities, you might need a different camera. Personally, I’d take slightly worse rolling shutter and slow motion in exchange for that flip-out, flip-up screen—especially if it means saving a lot of money compared to other cameras with that feature.

The "do everything" hybrid camera is not that far off. We're an in-camera ND filter and slightly faster sensor away. I bet Panasonic is going to get there first.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

For video, this is the most important feature of this high MP camera: 

 

Nice idea for a test but he's only testing the APS-C modes.

On a 24 megapixel sensor we are talking rather low resolutions in 1.5x crop mode - something between 12-15 megapixel.

So he is comparing 12 megapixel with no oversampling to 44 megapixel with oversampling.

What happens when he does the same in full frame.

S1H with AA filter at 6K full pixel readout, versus S1R II at 8K - the result would be much closer.

S1R II in full frame at 60fps is pixel binning, which is the worst thing possible as far as moire on fine textures is concerned.

So it would be nice to see him extend the test beyond APS-C mode, but then that would complicate the conclusion which isn't as attractive for YouTube videos.

[John Matthews]

6 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Nice idea for a test but he's only testing the APS-C modes.

No. He was testing other modes too. Look at the bottom of the screen where it says the mode he's testing (29 seconds in) which was full-sensor readout mode, then he talks about the crop modes. That guy doesn't strike me as the "sensational YouTube guy." As of right now, he's got under 500 subs. Clearly, the S1rii does better at not producing moiré than the S1H (at those distances). I'm sure the S1rii will produce moiré at other distances, just not in this example.

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

No. He was testing other modes too. Look at the bottom of the screen where it says the mode he's testing (29 seconds in) which was full-sensor readout mode, then he talks about the crop modes.

Is the full frame 4K 60fps on the S1R II actually oversampled from 8K/60p?

The sensor is too slow for that.

So when he labels it 4K/60fps full frame, I can't help but question it.

It's either a crop or binned, it can't be a full frame oversampled mode.

[Andrew Reid]

He uploaded the originals which is good...

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1obqp8z2FJCVnLswPCDq4MYPdat6va-AQ?usp=sharing

S1H I thought didn't really have a moire issue in 5.9K.

So perhaps he has found a way to break it.

[Ninpo33]

25 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Is the full frame 4K 60fps on the S1R II actually oversampled from 8K/60p?

The sensor is too slow for that.

So when he labels it 4K/60fps full frame, I can't help but question it.

It's either a crop or binned, it can't be a full frame oversampled mode.

Footage up to 30p is taken from the full width of the sensor using the full capture resolution, with a slight crop in to give 60p. 4K (in both flavors) is available at up to 120p with the addition of a further slight crop. Line skipping is used to deliver these 100p and 120p modes.

DCI and UHD 4K can also be captured at up to 60p from an APS-C region of the sensor.

 

[PannySVHS]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

S1R II in full frame at 60fps is pixel binning, which is the worst thing possible as far as moire on fine textures is concerned.

Slashcam tested 6K 60p with exellent results on a 4K timeline, almost as detailed and with resolution like 24 to 30p. No moire nor aliasing nor any other artefacts. Readout in that mode was tested with a result of 15.6ms.

[Andrew Reid]

So the 6K 60p is a crop with vertical binning according to Slashcam, but still very good detail:

https://www.slashcam.de/artikel/Test/Panasonic-LUMIX-S1R-II-Sensor-Bildqualitaet---Debayering--Rolling-Shutter-und-Dynamik--Rolling-Shutter---Panaso.html#4KDebayeringPanasonic

[Andrew Reid]

They will leave 8K 60p and faster sensor performance for an S1H Mark II presumably.

It will probably be able to match the Nikon Z8.

The question is, do we need another Z8?

[PannySVHS]

It will not overheat, have better dynamic range and latitude than the Z8 and have the usuability, ergonomics, sturdiness, battery life and beauty of the original S1H, if it's a true successor and sofore deserving the name of S1HII.

26 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The question is, do we need another Z8?

 

[Walter H]

We don't need another Z8; we need better than the Z8 and Slashcam's DR testing already shows that the S1Rii is just that. 

I took a long look at the Z8 and what turned me off from it was 1) no mechanical shutter option, and 2) not great H.265 implimentation - compression artifacts compared to it's ProRes and RAW options. This was a no-go for me as LOG in H.264/265 is where I live. 

[Walter H]

Also, for those of us in the US, I just see that if you preorder the S1Rii from Adorama, not only is there the Sandisk memory offer, there is also an offer for one year (yes - subscription-based) of C1 for $50. If these are of value to you (and you will need the latest C1 for raw and tethering support), that makes the S1Rii effectively a $3k camera.

This is a pretty crazy price at release that I would not have imaged.