Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II coming soon

[John Matthews]

6 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

If I was shopping between the two today, with the cost taken out of the equation, it would almost certainly be the S1Rii even though I think the S1Rii is not a completely worthy successor to the S1R (which it is arguably replacing and not the S1H).

Yeah, it certainly seems more like a S5iiR than anything else. Getting 2 S1H cameras (used) would still be a great starter setup for shooting weddings I imagine.

[MrSMW]

23 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Yeah, it certainly seems more like a S5iiR than anything else. Getting 2 S1H cameras (used) would still be a great starter setup for shooting weddings I imagine.

For stills or video, as long as you were aware the AF is not always 100% reliable for forward motion tracking such as entrances and exits.

For anything else, the AF is actually pretty decent and sticky. It's just a bit slow to lock on initially in that forwards or subject moving away scenario, but not as big of a deal as some made out.

It could be improved by tweaking the settings, using S35 mode, lens choice (zooms better than primes) and shooting smaller apertures such as f8...but some of these are 'workarounds' and we'd all rather stuff just worked without having to align the planets.

It's quite funny though that the image is considered 'as good'. It's a 2019 camera vs a 2025. How is that progress??!!

But then to be fair, the S1H image was and still is very good.

Also a vastly underrated stills camera unless you absolutely had to have the sharpest images around such as for maybe say product photography, but for portraits and events, superb IMO.

[Caleb Genheimer]

29 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Yeah, it certainly seems more like a S5iiR than anything else. Getting 2 S1H cameras (used) would still be a great starter setup for shooting weddings I imagine.

Yep my main challenge is, I’m not shopping between the two, I already have an S1H. It’s gonna take a bit extra to tempt me away, especially at $3K+

[Caleb Genheimer]

And the main lenses I use are Atlas Mercury, so… pretty open field on cameras I could use. I’m not locked into L-Mount.

[ita149]

Like I thought, the S1RII has not better moiré performance than the S1H :
 

Also, I'm almost sure the S1RII still has these weird smoothed out details in video but wait and see ...

[newfoundmass]

15 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Yeah, it certainly seems more like a S5iiR than anything else. Getting 2 S1H cameras (used) would still be a great starter setup for shooting weddings I imagine.

The S1H is a camera you could buy used today and it'll still hold up 5 years from now, similar to the S5. Both of those cameras have such a lovely, organic image. And as @MrSMWnoted, the auto focus isn't nearly as bad as people made it out to be once you learned how it works. 

It's a reminder of how fortunate we are that cameras released 6 years ago are still able to hold up to cameras released today. 

[MrSMW]

19 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The S1H is a camera you could buy used today and it'll still hold up 5 years from now

It's actually quite tempting...

A pair of used 'like new' S1H's can be had on MPB for basically €3000.

Add an 18, 35, 50 and 85 f1.8's from LUMIX or 20, 35, 65 and 90 f2's from Sigma, and I'd be good to go.

I'd still need something longer, 70-200 equivalent, but could probably pick up a used older lens for that need.

Hmmm...

I'm talking primarily stills here, albeit with an option to go hybrid or even pure video if needed and this pair of S1H's in addition to the S9 and pair of S5ii's I already have.

All within budget trading what I already have from Sony, Tamron and Nikon.

[MrSMW]

Oh and why not S1R's?

Could be an option but whereas MPB have 10x S1H units, they have 0x S1R's.

They do as of today have 4x S1's, but I don't think I'd choose an S1 over an S1H...

[Emanuel]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

It's a reminder of how fortunate we are that cameras released 6 years ago are still able to hold up to cameras released today. 

The same for S35... the key format used for decades on film : ) And FX30, the most underrated release of these last years IMHO, still a no-brainer two years and a half later basically for motion picture. Low light is made of fast glass to only mention something I am used to read as excuse. Welles came from being an inspiration to the whole film noir and be commited to light for deep DOF just in order to have more elements to play with.

Everything is shot on FF today, from news interviews to any piece of crap going on TV, whatchamacallit 'show'... go figure! Looks plainly hilarious.

- EAG

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, ita149 said:

Like I thought, the S1RII has not better moiré performance than the S1H :
 

Also, I'm almost sure the S1RII still has these weird smoothed out details in video but wait and see ...

Fair play for the correction.

I think with any bayer sensor there is a way to invoke moire, if the texture is fine enough and at the right distance.

On his closer shots the issue was solved by the 8K sensor, but the S1H with the AA filter should have the advantage in all the other cases and further away from the subject.

Is it worth worrying about?

Not too much, but worth being aware of.

I am still too upset about the S5 body design to care about the S1R II too much, let's see what panasonic bring with the S1H II 7 years from now.

[Andrew Reid]

Thoughts on rolling shutter and press trips.

I think there's a bigger problem with Panasonic and it's the competition.

Nikon Z8 used prices... $3000.

So the Panasonic's not the best value hybrid camera, and not the best spec's either.

And it doesn't have the most versatile, well established mount either.

Sony a7r V - higher resolution, used prices also around $3k.

Canon EOS R5 used prices also a problem... $2k-2.5k

GFX 100 is another competitor, with chonky 4K and much larger sensor for also around 2.5k-3k used.

Why buy a new camera over those?

When it isn't better or cheaper?

Panasonic need to either be cheaper or better.

You can't be more expensive and worse.

[Emanuel]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

So the Panasonic's not the best value hybrid camera, and not the best spec's either.

And it doesn't have the most versatile, well established mount either.

Do you find it that way? Well, indeed. Even though cost-benefit I think fills the blanks, maybe just popular among prosumers or hybrid professionals, I'd say to evaluate for the brand's tradition...

I struggle to find anything which may interest me maybe other than that not exactly light Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8 or that cumbersome beauty of a Samyang 35-150mm f/2-2.8... And even this latter one putting up a fight against many QC issues and reports.

[MrSMW]

51 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Why buy a new camera over those?

Because you are already heavily invested in whatever system that new camera is in, otherwise agree.

I think for my specific needs though, if I had to start from scratch again today, I'm pretty sure I'd still go for the same 3 video units I have and probably go for the S5iiR (for stills), even over the A7RV and Z8 and certainly over the Canon's because of their ridiculous priced lenses.

Camera purchase in isolation is a different equation to part of 'as a whole'.

I'm still pondering whether I might just flip my A7RV + Zf and 4 lenses for the new S5iiR and 1-2 lenses despite there being compromises, because there are certain benefits.

44 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Sigma 28-45mm f/1.8

Indeed it's not exactly light for what is a fairly limited zoom range, but for my indoor needs, it's the best single lens in existence and is 2 fast primes with a rotation of the wrist.

If they can make a longer sibling such as a 45-90 and keep it f1.8, that is it, I will have my lens pairing for life and would choose my camera system to fit around that pairing.

It's partly why I am with both Sony & LUMIX at this time as in they are the only two that natively can use these lenses and you can send them in to have the mounts replaced if you need to.

But NOT having (or ay sign I am aware of) of that longer focal length sibling, the 28-45 currently doesn't have a place in my line up.

[ita149]

24 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

 

Indeed it's not exactly light for what is a fairly limited zoom range, but for my indoor needs, it's the best single lens in existence and is 2 fast primes with a rotation of the wrist.

 

Yes the 28-45mm is excellent, the rendering is nice and punchy, the contrast and colors are great, and it replaces (for me) easily a 24mm, 35mm and 50mm. This is also because of lenses like this I want to give a last chance to Panasonic with the S1RII. 
But I'm pessimistic. The more I see footage from the S1RII, the more I think it is more close than the S5II than the S1, S1H and S5.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, ita149 said:

But I'm pessimistic. The more I see footage from the S1RII, the more I think it is more close than the S5II than the S1, S1H and S5.

Possibly, I don’t really know even coming to S5ii from S5 and S1H. And S1R.

I honestly haven’t noticed any real difference but then I haven’t especially been looking and changed my workflow/editing.

What I do know is that I am more than happy with what the S5ii produces. Specifically in 6k 30p open gate with my LUT burnt into vlog and using a 1/8th mist VND on my lenses.

I have had the very occasional weird lighting effects when shooting outdoor weddings in the evening when there are strings of lights, but otherwise not a single issue that I have ever noticed.

Moire, nope. Fringing, nope. RS, nope.

Other than perhaps 8k (which I personally do not want or need), I doubt if there is much if any real world difference shooting an S5ii or the new S5iiR…sorry, S1Rii.

Oh I am sure there are many pedantic types out there that can prove at the nano-microscopic level there is, but the fact that they don’t have a life is not my concern.

[John Matthews]

Why get the S1rii? 1) the versatility of the back screen; 2) open gate; 3) tools; 4) great IBIS; 5) decent AF. You won't find that combination elsewhere. In fact, the only other camera with that is the S5ii, but the S1rii is probably better.

[MrSMW]

I personally would not trade an S5ii for an S1Rii for any of those things.

I would however because I wanted or needed 8k. I personally don’t but it could be a reason to someone else.

The trade in on an S5ii is now less than 1k so the price to trade on a new S1Rii is around 2.5k. You’d have to REALLY want one to do that!

But for photographers, trading up from 24mp to 44mp might be a more valid reason.

Buying either from scratch, brand new, is a slightly different proposition but when you can get a ‘like new’ S5ii for approx 1.5k, 3.5k for the new boy makes zero sense to me.

Unless someone can convince themselves the upgraded bits and bobs are worth +2k to them.

2k is a whole chunk of glass options!

[John Matthews]

35 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

The trade in on an S5ii is now less than 1k so the price to trade on a new S1Rii is around 2.5k. You’d have to REALLY want one to do that!

I agree. I imagine that by Black Friday, the S1rii will be roughly 2800 euros, but even then, I'd pass against the S5ii.

[ita149]

46 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I personally would not trade an S5ii for an S1Rii for any of those things.

I would however because I wanted or needed 8k. I personally don’t but it could be a reason to someone else.

The trade in on an S5ii is now less than 1k so the price to trade on a new S1Rii is around 2.5k. You’d have to REALLY want one to do that!

But for photographers, trading up from 24mp to 44mp might be a more valid reason.

Buying either from scratch, brand new, is a slightly different proposition but when you can get a ‘like new’ S5ii for approx 1.5k, 3.5k for the new boy makes zero sense to me.

Unless someone can convince themselves the upgraded bits and bobs are worth +2k to them.

2k is a whole chunk of glass options!

In France, there was some offers last week for the S1RII, like 350€ in gift card, you can also easily sell the S5II for 1300€. 
It makes the upgrade for about 1900€, it still a lot of money but it is not so bad for 8K, 4K60fps, 4k 120fps with a small crop, internal raw, slightly better IBIS, in my opinion better colors and of course better photo resolution, I think it makes sense mainly for hybrid shooters heavily invested in L-mount. And it is not like there was something better for this mount.
Like I said I pre-ordered mine, but if the camera is disappointing, I will go with Nikon and the Z8, like Andrew did.

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, ita149 said:

In France, there was some offers last week for the S1RII, like 350€ in gift card, you can also easily sell the S5II for 1300€. 

The former is good to know but define 'easy' because if it's eBay, I hate selling stuff there ad have had so many issues, I'd rather not. Not that `I am currently selling! But MPB are offering well under €1k now!

 

1 hour ago, ita149 said:

but if the camera is disappointing

Let me know because if the price is right, I 'might' be interested...