Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II coming soon

[MurtlandPhoto]

I'm honestly a little shocked at the reception to the camera on some forums. It provides a fair bit of upgrades to both the S5ii and the S1R while still staying at a lower price point than the competition, and even it's own predecessor. It seems to me that every brand's offerings are more or less the same with little differences here and there while also offering their own distinct competitive advantages. I can't help but notice that many folks want Panasonic to do everything Sony or Canon does, PLUS their own thing. Or that these manufacturers have running checklists that they compare and contrast to each other line by line when developing a camera versus largely doing their own thing. 

I preordered the S1Rii so my bias is clear, but as someone heavily invested into the Lumix S system I can't see this as anything but a solid camera for their lineup.

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

I agree. I imagine that by Black Friday, the S1rii will be roughly 2800 euros, but even then, I'd pass against the S5ii.

No idea when if in 2025 yet but you, me and a few of us risk to not resist to one when will reach the 2500 mark... ;- )

[wushuliu]

I've lurked here for years but this S1RII stuff has gotten real silly. It's like there's resentment it's not an S1HII even though we all know it's the R series. And the criticisms of the S1RII are especially strange considering the Z8 (which I've owned) was subject to criticism when released (overheating, dynamic range, AF = nice try, but no Sony/Canon, no Bird Detect, not 1 but 2 recalls, did I mention overheating?). Now the Z8 is the model camera the S1RII just can't match. Almost as if firmware updates make a difference. Is Panasonic good at firmware updates? Gee, I dunno.

The new Slashcam review certainly seems bullish on the S1RII.

[John Matthews]

31 minutes ago, wushuliu said:

I've lurked here for years but this S1RII stuff has gotten real silly. It's like there's resentment it's not an S1HII even though we all know it's the R series. And the criticisms of the S1RII are especially strange considering the Z8 (which I've owned) was subject to criticism when released (overheating, dynamic range, AF = nice try, but no Sony/Canon, no Bird Detect, not 1 but 2 recalls, did I mention overheating?). Now the Z8 is the model camera the S1RII just can't match. Almost as if firmware updates make a difference. Is Panasonic good at firmware updates? Gee, I dunno.

The new Slashcam review certainly seems bullish on the S1RII.

Some believe Panasonic is on the verge of shutting down, a narrative that a few users continue to push. I suppose their decision to release the S1R II instead of an S1H II only fuels that perception. The main criticism of the S1R II is its rolling shutter—something even Panasonic has acknowledged, advising those who prioritize it to choose a different camera. Essentially, Panasonic can't win. Pack everything into a camera, and it's too expensive. Leave something out, and it’s not "the very best." The real question is whether it offers good value—and, like most Panasonic cameras (new and used), it clearly does.

[MrSMW]

1 minute ago, John Matthews said:

Panasonic can't win

They can.

They just need to be a little more vocal about their product line such as:

“In early 2025 we will be releasing a successor to the S1R and then in the late Spring, a successor to the S1H”.

Press release. Bosh. Job done. Shuts the speculation down with a single sentence.

People respect integrity. At least the folks that count do. 

I’m not saying Panasonic LUMIX lack integrity, but a lot of these companies could kill a lot of the stupid shit that goes on by being a bit more informative and less Secret Fucking Squirrel.

In my humble opinion.

[Andrew Reid]

51 minutes ago, John Matthews said:

Some believe Panasonic is on the verge of shutting down, a narrative that a few users continue to push. I suppose their decision to release the S1R II instead of an S1H II only fuels that perception. The main criticism of the S1R II is its rolling shutter—something even Panasonic has acknowledged, advising those who prioritize it to choose a different camera. Essentially, Panasonic can't win. Pack everything into a camera, and it's too expensive. Leave something out, and it’s not "the very best." The real question is whether it offers good value—and, like most Panasonic cameras (new and used), it clearly does.

You talk about this narrative as if it's some Fox news propaganda, I am not pushing anything, the logic speaks for itself. Low sales figures speak for themselves. The business logic is that Panasonic simply can't continue like this, they must change and do something about their marketing and product strategy. The Panasonic Microwave Camera is not enough to take sales away from the others.

If they are still on under 3-4% market share after another couple of years, that's one activist shareholder meeting away from curtains.

They have already fucked up with some of their most loyal users, I am not the only one to switch to Nikon, or Sony, or Canon or Fuji due to the S1R II being in a mid-range body design, with previous features taken away, with a sensor slower than what the competition had 5 years ago at the same resolution, and an autofocus engine which is as far behind the cutting edge as their lens ecosystem is.

[newfoundmass]

2 hours ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

I'm honestly a little shocked at the reception to the camera on some forums. It provides a fair bit of upgrades to both the S5ii and the S1R while still staying at a lower price point than the competition, and even it's own predecessor. It seems to me that every brand's offerings are more or less the same with little differences here and there while also offering their own distinct competitive advantages. I can't help but notice that many folks want Panasonic to do everything Sony or Canon does, PLUS their own thing. Or that these manufacturers have running checklists that they compare and contrast to each other line by line when developing a camera versus largely doing their own thing. 

I preordered the S1Rii so my bias is clear, but as someone heavily invested into the Lumix S system I can't see this as anything but a solid camera for their lineup.

Agreed. For a new camera you can't beat the value. It's not really fair to hold used prices against it, either. Is Lumix supposed to price it to match the R5 or Z8's used prices? I don't fault anyone that decides to buy those instead, but Lumix can't control that. 

[Andrew Reid]

40 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Agreed. For a new camera you can't beat the value. It's not really fair to hold used prices against it, either. Is Lumix supposed to price it to match the R5 or Z8's used prices? I don't fault anyone that decides to buy those instead, but Lumix can't control that. 

I agree it's not entirely fair to compare new to used but it's a reality of the market, if you had the chance of a better spec for less money, and it was in mint condition, you'd consider it and so would I.

Anyway let's compare new.

New Nikon Z8 is currently $3396.95 at B&H, and 3600 euros in Europe inc. EU 20% VAT.

The S1R II is $3299 at B&H and $3599 in Europe (including tax)

So the new S1R II is not really meaningfully cheaper than a new Z8.

But it's a worse camera in several important ways.

Although you do get open gate and anamorphic modes.

True, if you see it in isolation to the competition (new or used) and just come at it like you are as a Panasonic user, as an upgrade to an S5 or the original S1R then it's a decent upgrade.

The original S1R however it must be pointed out is now almost SEVEN years old, so that's a long time to wait for an updated sensor and codec.

[MurtlandPhoto]

My gripe with some of the tit for tat comparisons is they almost always ignore the reality of switching costs for folks with established kits. Would a Sony A7iii shooter looking for a higher resolution upgrade be persuaded to switch to the S5Rii versus the A7Rv? Most of the time, probably not. It's hard to get people to switch systems with one camera body, for good reason. Personally, I switched back to Panasonic after 2 years with Sony. The thing that clinched it wasn't actually Panasonic—it was Blackmagic! 

For those folks looking to start buying into their first camera system Panasonic offers the best value setup both new or used. Some people prefer to buy new things in general so a used Z8 being the same price as a new S5Rii is irrelevant. And, if they don't mind used, Panasonic is an even further better value.
 

What Panasonic really needs is consistency moving forward. It's been a long time since the original S1R and S1H. Release these cameras and establish some sort of regular rhythm to firmware updates and new bodies in the future and they'll regain customers over time. But, one amazing camera wouldn't do it. A good system will.

[Andrew Reid]

12 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

My gripe with some of the tit for tat comparisons is they almost always ignore the reality of switching costs for folks with established kits. Would a Sony A7iii shooter looking for a higher resolution upgrade be persuaded to switch to the S5Rii versus the A7Rv? Most of the time, probably not. It's hard to get people to switch systems with one camera body, for good reason.

Sony made Canon users switch in the DSLR days in huge quantities. It can be done.

The amount of Metabones EF adapters sold was extraordinary.

They were EVERYWHERE in 2014-18.

Now it is harder to switch from some mounts to others. And I'm afraid it's harder to switch to L-mount than others.

This is because with Nikon Z-mount you can bring the Sony lenses over and they work perfectly.

You can also bring the Canon EF stuff over to Sony and Nikon, again perfect with a Metabones, Sigma MC-11 or Fringer.

The EF lenses on L-mount forget about it. They work terribly. The reliability is wonky even on the phase-detect Panasonic bodies. That's with Sigma MC-22.

L-mount even makes it difficult for existing Panasonic users to switch to Panasonic. Micro Four Thirds anyone?

12 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Personally, I switched back to Panasonic after 2 years with Sony. The thing that clinched it wasn't actually Panasonic—it was Blackmagic! 

Ah yes. This makes sense.

12 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

For those folks looking to start buying into their first camera system Panasonic offers the best value setup both new or used.

I don't agree I'm afraid on this however, the best value is Sony.

You can get an a7 IV for S5 II prices and it's a far superior camera in terms of beginners who need reliable autofocus and cheap lenses like the Sony FE 28mm F2.

12 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

Some people prefer to buy new things in general so a used Z8 being the same price as a new S5Rii is irrelevant. And, if they don't mind used, Panasonic is an even further better value.

LOL you can't say that it makes no logical sense to say that because some prefer new, used prices are irrelevant.

It is very relevant to a LOT of people.

My Z8 has a shutter count of 600 and is mint. A far better deal than spending $800 more on a new one.

12 minutes ago, MurtlandPhoto said:

What Panasonic really needs is consistency moving forward. It's been a long time since the original S1R and S1H. Release these cameras and establish some sort of regular rhythm to firmware updates and new bodies in the future and they'll regain customers over time. But, one amazing camera wouldn't do it. A good system will.

I agree it's about the system, and lenses. Not one camera will spring them into pole position.

But wait a minute... Panasonic WERE in pole position once upon a time in mirrorless land. They had 100% market share with Micro Four Thirds before Sony came along, and then the rest. That system, Micro Four Thirds was the textbook example of a good camera ecosystem. Wide range of lenses at all price brackets. Huge range of third party lenses - Sigma, Voigtlander, Tamron, SLR Magic. Very attractive camera and lens prices, good bang for buck.

The timing and rhythm was far better too.

In the earlier days we had a new GH series cameras every 2 years.

Firmware updates have never been a problem for Panasonic, they bang them out with enthusiasm.

But it's the full frame era where they have lost the plot.

Even when the original S5 came out (2021 was it?) I had the feeling that they should really have done an S1R II in reply to the EOS R5 a year earlier.

That they have left it to 2025 is just nuts.

[mtol]

38 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The EF lenses on L-mount forget about it. They work terribly. The reliability is wonky even on the phase-detect Panasonic bodies. That's with Sigma MC-22.

This isn't my experience with the Sigma MC-21 or the Fotodiox ND Throttle adapter. Both work quite well with most EF lenses I have been able to try, including on the S5II with excellent autofocus. And its nice to have an ND filter behind the lens - though this can be accomplished on other mounts with a proper adapter.

More generally though, I would agree that L-mount lens options are both uninspiring and limited - especially compared to E-Mount. Basically all I use are adapted Contax and EF lenses, and for this the L-bodies are fine. But in terms of native glass, I have one lens - the 24-105, which is boring and competently utilitarian. Even voigtlander options which were such a strong point of the M43 ecosystem (the f0.95 series!) are non-existent. This I think is really the downfall of the system - it's not even the bodies but the lenses. There's ridiculously priced leica lenses, and bland expensive offerings from Panasonic, or sigma lenses that I am admittedly reluctant to invest in given the overall weakness of the ecosystem.

I think one thing that has kept me from migrating from the S1 / S1H is the desire to own a hybrid that supports a good XLR unit. The XLR unit on sony appeals greatly, but 12 megapixel sensors on the video-centric cameras seem lacklustre for photography. I really just want one camera that does everything, and the S1H is 99% of the way there, for me.

There are also, in this price range, a hell of a lot of interesting options that one could start to consider for filmmaking - I'm seeing used Alexas, C300 IIs, C70s all kind of reaching into this price range second hand.

An interesting aside - I talked with some of the filmmakers behind No Other Land - and while I'm not sure of every camera used, the GH5 played a major role. It's a generational workhorse, IMO, not unlike the Canon 5D MK II / MK III.

I still think of what a massive leap the GH5 represented from previous systems I'd used, and how I don't think there's been a hybrid to represent a similar generational leap in technology yet. We're in an era of more incremental progress, which is perhaps why the S1RII feels underwhelming - for not being a 'perfect' camera.

[ND64]

3 hours ago, wushuliu said:

The new Slashcam review certainly seems bullish on the S1RII

Yea, they like it. Despite the visibility of RS in their sample shot where the columns can't stay vertical for a second; and their readout speed measurements that says anything above 30fps is doing some sort of pixel binning.