Panasonic Lumix S1R Mark II coming soon

[Andrew Reid]

I know I wang on a lot about the Z8 but if any camera underscores exactly where Panasonic have gone wrong, it's that one.

1. Nikon have formed a close custom-sensor relationship with Sony Semi. Panasonic have not bothered, they have gone in as a customer taking stuff off the shelf.

2. Both Panasonic and Nikon have had to start afresh with a new mount. Panasonic had a head start. The L-mount Leica SL came out ages ago. Yet it is Z-mount that attracts me most, as a long-time Panasonic and Micro Four Thirds user. Why is this? The Leica-M mount autofocus adapter from Techart. The Megadap Sony E-mount adapter. The complete lack of any requirement for me to suddenly invest trillions in native mount lenses. Thank you Techart and Megadap. Thank you Z-mount for having the physical and technical attributes that make it so flexible.

3. $3000 mint condition used camera vs $3600 new. OK, so the extra $600 gets you an S1R II but there's no point because it's worse than the $3000 mint condition camera. That's partly because of point 1. Panasonic's off the shelf sensor is behind what Nikon put out 3 years ago with the Z9 which formed the basis for the cheaper Z8.

4. Need and desire issues... I don't exactly have the creative need for what's on offer from them. Again that comes down to the fact that the Z8 and Sony a7r V exist and have done for more than a year!

5. Loss of unique selling points. Again, apart from anamorphic modes, Panasonic don't have much that isn't offered elsewhere. Even Fuji has open gate now.

6. Autofocus. It's been a shitshow. The late introduction of phase-detect AF has softened the blow a bit but it still doesn't work reliably enough. Especially with adapters like the Sigma MC-21.

7. Internal RAW codec situation is iffy. ProRes RAW has crazy large file size and there's no other choice. Panasonic should have at least licensed BRAW for it. Again the comparisons here with Nikon are relevant, due to the REDcode patent situation where clearly Nikon have the upper hand in future development of internal RAW video codecs.

8. Marketing. The Z8 is not pigeonholed with an H, an R, or an S. It is clearly a D850 replacement. This means flagship performance for less money than one. Now this is a philosophy Panasonic have clearly tried with the S1R II and in terms of the specs sheet they have almost succeeded in matching Canon's 2020 model, even down to the overheating.

9. Marketing. The S1R II is sold as a hybrid, when it is the S1H which is supposed to be the hybrid. The S1H Mark II release date continues to be highly speculated at, so why would I buy the S1R II for hybrid use if it might be made obsolete in 6 months by an S1H II?

10. Marketing. When the social media brigade were jetted out to catch hypothermia in Norway, I was not kept in the loop as a long time high profile Panasonic customer, and it was the same for the GH7 launch and S9. I can't help but feel a little bit personally insulted by not so much even a demo camera to try at home, or an email with someone saying Hello, or perhaps an offer to do some feedback / interviews.

Point 10 however in no way makes me more or less biased when it comes to the objective reality that Panasonic are fucking up.

[PannySVHS]

Awesome post! Spot on! Fundamental overview regarding Panny cameras.  @Andrew Reid

Marketing and communication with the GH4 and GH5 was exellent. Matt Frazer was allowed to do the perfectly right thing. It was exiting to follow the news and to watch the footage. This forum was overflowing with high quality posts and discussions. The launch of the GH5s was already lacking. Their box cameras not sporting NDs is another underwhelming marketing decision. So close yet so far.

Their product palette is chaotic. No 10bit GX9 successor, akward releases like a G90, G100 or before that GF5, 7, 8. This was not helping sales nor Pannys reputation to say the least.

Is there any native L mount 28mm 2.8 pancake lens out there for full frame sensor coverage? 35, 50, 70, no? Bummer. I think there are some for apsc coverage. Another missed out opportunity, especially in combination with the S9.

I know i would have bought a S9 with mechanical shutter and evf and a 28 and 50mm pancake. I dislike taking photos without a mechanical shutter. M39 route for small affordable lenses with a short mount? I guess so. Fiddling around, being an adapter juggler can be fun.:)

S1RII is a nice camera and release with S5III being a better name. It's accompanied by lacklustre marketing and communication. The S1RIII looks good by itself. Pannys surrounding enviroment does not at the moment.

 

[IronFilm]

On 3/3/2025 at 5:31 AM, Caleb Genheimer said:

Anything over $3K has me scrolling through Arri Alexa eBay listings anyway if I’m honest lol. Even a decent number of the fuller featured “classic” type Alexa’s are coming in around $4K, and often have cards/case/batteries.

 

I've got an ARRI Classic on my watchlist right now that's sitting at just $3K

 

[BTM_Pix]

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Yet it is Z-mount that attracts me most, as a long-time Panasonic and Micro Four Thirds user.

Even MFT lenses can find a home on the Z mount.

Yes it will only be for manual but that encompasses a lot of very fine and affordable lenses (particularly cine) that can be used and the vast majority of those will cover APS-C.

https://pixco.com.cn/products/micro-4-3-nikon-z-adapter

[Andrew Reid]

Nice for the 2.3x crop mode on the Z8

Now all they need to work on is a decent release mechanism on these thin adapters!

[John Matthews]

There are some significant negatives on the Z8 versus the S1rii:

• No Open Gate
• No IN-CAMERA Live View Composite
• No IN-CAMERA Pixel Shift
• No Waveforms
• No False Color
• No IN-CAMERA 32-bit audio possibilities
• No anamorphic modes
• No anamorphic-specific IBIS
• Not great IBIS at wide angles
• No breathing compensation for Z-mount lenses
• The Z8 is about 100g heavier

Maybe, they'll add some of these in a firmware update, but then again I'm rather certain Panasonic will also add stuff. These negatives were just off the top of my head, but I imagine there are more.

The crazy thing is that the specs today are so good that it doesn't really matter all that much. All of the cameras will do; some just have a few more features than others.

What sucks about reviews in general is that you watch them and you cannot help thinking that they are significantly impacted by how the company treated them in the past or present. Apparently, retribution is a real thing in the camera review business.

[John Matthews]

Interesting thoughts on @Andrew Reid's post.

 

[Walter H]

@John MatthewsThanks for that post. Obviously we need to think about any purchase in a "what's best for my use" context and since I was strongly considering either the Z6III or the Z8 (I also considered and rejected switching to Sony & Canon), the things that stand out that would most significantly aid my work are, 

• potential to bring 32-bit float directly into camera (currently doing that externally with an F3 and syncing in post)
• False Color (fastest way to prioritize skin tone exposure)
• Live View Composite (event work, flash work, etc)
• really excellent IBIS (Richard Wong's comparison with the Z6III was shocking in this regard)
• better shadow noise performance than Nikon's stacked sensor
• as an H.265 shooter, I know VLog well and NLog seems compromised in this space
• don't need to change systems.

The only functional benefit for me about the Nikons is the potentially better autofocus. Remains to be seen, however.

The hitch for me has to do with shadow noise in stills (video seems excellent) but this is a 24mp vs 44mp sensor primarily and that higher resolution would be very helpful in my photographic work. Yes, I would really like to know the specs and timeline of the S1Hii but ... I do think the additional resolution is a higher priority for me.

[John Matthews]

5 minutes ago, Walter H said:

The hitch for me has to do with shadow noise in stills (video seems excellent) but this is a 24mp vs 44mp sensor primarily and that higher resolution would be very helpful in my photographic work. Yes, I would really like to know the specs and timeline of the S1Hii but ... I do think the additional resolution is a higher priority for me.

Wait, I was comparing the S1rii to a Z8. No one knows the specs for the S1Hii (or even if it exists). As far as I know, the Lumix will be have better noise performance in raw photos. Another downer it that the Z8 has baked-in crops in their raw files. When shooting 1:1 square format, you'll only get a raw with those pixels- stupid!

[Walter H]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

Wait, I was comparing the S1rii to a Z8. No one knows the specs for the S1Hii (or even if it exists). As far as I know, the Lumix will be have better noise performance in raw photos. Another downer it that the Z8 has baked-in crops in their raw files. When shooting 1:1 square format, you'll only get a raw with those pixels- stupid!

Yes, right, I started with the "to the Z8" comparison and then transitioned (without much clarity) to the Panasonic 24mp sensor...

Good point regarding the RAW files. 

I think what it really boils down to for me are the pros/cons of the Nikon stacked sensor (faster read-out speed facilitating better autofocus and less rolling shutter) vs Panasonic's approach (resulting in better shadow response both for noise and color fidelity) and I choose the latter, particularly since the S1's rolling shutter performance has never been a limiter in the work that I do and the S1Rii is not worse in 4k.

[Andrew Reid]

1 hour ago, John Matthews said:

There are some significant negatives on the Z8 versus the S1rii:

• No Open Gate
• No IN-CAMERA Live View Composite
• No IN-CAMERA Pixel Shift
• No Waveforms
• No False Color
• No IN-CAMERA 32-bit audio possibilities
• No anamorphic modes
• No anamorphic-specific IBIS
• Not great IBIS at wide angles
• No breathing compensation for Z-mount lenses
• The Z8 is about 100g heavier

Depends on the person of course but these are not generally regarded as significant features.

The Pixel Shift hi-res I believe has been added in firmware already.

The live-view composite stuff - do you mean for stills? You can do that in post.

Waveforms, false colour, the screen is too small for this not to be a mess. This is what you should use an external monitor for and the screen on the back of a mirrorless camera should always be clutter free so you can feel and see exactly what you're shooting creatively. I don't use peaking for same reason.

Anamorphic modes, yes Nikon and Sony need to come to the table there, I think they consider it too much of a niche though!

100g heavier oh dear my back is breaking.

[John Matthews]

15 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The Pixel Shift hi-res I believe has been added in firmware already.

In-camera is the key because you need to check it on the spot. Only Panasonic does that in-camera.

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

The live-view composite stuff - do you mean for stills? You can do that in post.

Again, the key is in-camera and checking your result on the spot. Otherwise, you're going to have to go out again. Also, it takes half the time for long exposures. You watch it as it builds.

17 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Waveforms, false colour, the screen is too small for this not to be a mess. This is what you should use an external monitor for and the screen on the back of a mirrorless camera should always be clutter free so you can feel and see exactly what you're shooting creatively. I don't use peaking for same reason.

I reckon a cinema camera would be better then. If you're going to slap a Atomos on it, then you need to add that to the price too.

19 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

100g heavier oh dear my back is breaking.

Yes, I understand. However, for the wedding photographer lugging this camera around all day, every little bit helps.

It's great to look at the hardware specs, but the software increases the usability massively. Also, Lumix is not shy about their firmware updates. No one actually knows what is going to be in-store for the S1rii as a lot of features might be added.

[ita149]

23 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The former is good to know but define 'easy' because if it's eBay, I hate selling stuff there ad have had so many issues, I'd rather not. Not that `I am currently selling! But MPB are offering well under €1k now!

 

Let me know because if the price is right, I 'might' be interested...

 

I stopped to sell anything to MBP and I only sell cameras in person, never on Ebay, especially at this price.
I just use ad sites to meet buyers. The S5II is quite popular.

[Walter H]

@PannySVHS@ita149 This guy has some footage to download in a range of codecs if you want to work with it a bit. I have and while there is not much, I am at least seeing there is no longer the need to pull greens out of the midtones, which is a standard proceedure for me with my S1 VLog footage.

Curious what you see & think regarding the color smearing in skin tones. (Also appreciate that this might not be the best footage to evaluate that concern.)

Edit: youtube video linked now! (sorry sorry)

[Andrew Reid]

4 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Interesting thoughts on @Andrew Reid's post.

 

Nice piece this.

I'll give him a sub.

[Emanuel]

Who is him as member here? I am curious...

[Walter H]

32 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Who is him as member here? I am curious...

oops. post is now edited to include the link!

[ND64]

The fact that we're comparing Nikon, which until four years ago was called "potato" in videographers community, with Panasonic, which was making pro video cameras when my mother was a young girl, and score points are about "anamorphic modes", is crazy if you think about that.

Anyway, feature leapfrogging is a never ending game. You get a capability in brand X that is missing in brand Y, but you get something unique in brand Y that is still missing in X. After two years, both will have them eventually with some differences in implementation. Decisions, in my opinion, should be based on "system advantages", not feature set. I love to have eye control AF in Canon cameras, but RF system is the most restrictive, while the native lens choices is like super cheap/super exotic. But some people would say they have 50% of the market share so there should be good reasons half of people bet on this system, and its ok. I don't think thats a good logic for choosing a system, but at least its an evaluation about the system, not the features. 

[Emanuel]

35 minutes ago, Walter H said:

oops. post is now edited to include the link!

Ah I was referring another input, thanks anyway for your care : ) Much appreciated your care and link : )

 

[Emanuel]

7 hours ago, John Matthews said:

Interesting thoughts on @Andrew Reid's post.

 

Who is him as member here on EOSHD or just a lurker? I am curious... 

That BF/Leica thingy remark is also my point (a 'little bit" more price-conscious...) but not exactly as glass-half-full... ; )

On L mount, Andrew has an unbeatable argument for now at least. No idea what comes next in the future but without that (just launched a few days ago and don't tell me it's S35 and praise at same time the presence of the format on FF devices later on, please ; ) won't be easy... 

The reference to video on GH series to make the format to last and lasts so far, a hint about my recent criticism when motion picture recording modes are neglected... 

The trouble with GH7 is... price (I think people should read more @eatstoomuchjam on FF ; ) 

I concur about that AF observation, that's actually the missing link Panasonic was looking for IMHO too. 

Thumbs up to his complaints on the customary limitations (of the usual yadda yadda on overheating boring like hell to each release) and to the coda of this YT entry, no less : )

BTW tographer is a funny name for hybrid user or just shooter...