What are your feelings about Panasonic S1R II being in the S5 body design?

[Andrew Reid]

Nice long (2 hour!) review from Richard Wong.

I've been thinking about the standardisation of body designs at Panasonic.

Taking inspiration from Sony they seem to want to design a one-body fits all standardised ergonomics.

But the lack of the top panel LCD and the angular body of the S5 Mark II does nothing for me.

And I'm wondering when Panasonic will start adding a bit of flair and soul to their designs.

If they came up with the S5 Mark II body design as a way of creating a Sony a7 IV mould to then go and do a whole set of other cameras with only minor ergonomic changes, they have done a really bad job.

The S5 Mark II body is not flagship material.

Sony a7 IV is.

The Sony a1 has an almost identical design and ergonomics to the a7 IV, but still feels like a flagship.

It's been the same since the Sony a9 being based on the a7 III.

The Nikon Z8 is probably the nicest of the bunch I think? Not too small, not too big, top panel LCD, very nice viewfinder hump, feels premium.

So in general just the design... what do people think of the direction Panasonic have taken since the S5 Mark II to standardise their bodies? The G9 II of course shares the same basic layout and looks too.

Maybe they will break the mould a bit with the S1H Mark II if we ever see it? They could certainly use some imagination at this point.

[PannySVHS]

It has the awesome screen mechanism of the S1H and GH7. I find the body design ok. S1H is a beauty to hold and to look at on the other hand. Makes it hard for me to sell it.:) Top panel is beautiful as well.

I never held a S5II in my hands, so all I can referr to is the way it looks.

[ArashM]

I shot with a A74 for a year and a half along with my other gear, and have had 2 S5iix since they were released.

Will take an S5iix body over the A7 line any day of the week. My big challenge with the S5iix was the st*^&d flipped out screen would jam against all 4 ports which stops it from any rotation. The S1Rii solved that with the new screen design. the APS-C crop for 60p is also a bit of a pain in the backend.

I've done very well with the S5iix, and looking forward to receiving my S1Rii. 

[Andrew Reid]

32 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

It has the awesome screen mechanism of the S1H and GH7.

I find it over-engineered and fiddly with the catch, and too thick.

Have you tried the a7r V? Screen mechanism is in a different league.

32 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

S1H is a beauty to hold and to look at on the other hand. Makes it hard for me to sell it.:) Top panel is beautiful as well.

I think you'll find S5 II and S1R II a big step down from that.

[PannySVHS]

@Andrew ReidI never had the chance to even look at a A7RV. I don't know for sure if I'm curious enough to check one out at Calumet, but I think I might.:) I find a lot of Sony bodies of the last ten years unattractive to look at. I liked the og A7 and the A6000 when a friend of mine let me play around with them.

I love the screen on my S1H but very much disliked the gnarly hard edged tilt mechanism on my S1. I still enjoy the tactility and ease of use on my Gx85. I also like the screen on my LX10 though over the head viewing is not supported. Of course I had the usual swivel variantes at my hand on various Panny cameras. S1H mechanism is my favourite of all of them, combining tilt and swivel flavours and being pleasant and solid in use.

I guess I could enjoy the S1RII body due to the screen solution which I got to appreciate from my S1H. If Evf quality is equal to S1/S1H level, the SRII body looks like it might fit the bill.

Though the design accounts to slightly above average battery life for a camera of 40+Mpix and 8K video. I think a beefier battery should have been one of the priorities in body design for a top of the line Panasonic camera.

I prefer the sturdiness of a GH4/5 and S1/S1H but I also find a G70 perfectly fine. So a S5II SRII body might be ok for me, maybe even more than that.

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

What do people think of the direction Panasonic have taken since the S5 Mark II to standardise their bodies?

I understand the cost saving/standardisation perspective but I think Panasonic are definitely taking the piss a bit now by re-using the S5ii body for all their products.

[newfoundmass]

I don't mind the S5 II design. It's not a beautiful camera, but from a functional standpoint it's highly customizable and it feels natural/intuitive to operate. My only real complaint about the body is there isn't a lock to stop me from accidentally changing settings, especially when it comes to ISO and shutter angle. I have gotten used to it, but when I have others filming they often accidentally change one, the other, or both. That is one of the most exciting things I saw about the S1R II for me, as dumb as that sounds.

The only real problem I really have with them standardising bodies is I suspect it might be why the S1R II has overheating issues despite active cooling. I think it needs a larger body to help with heat management due to the larger sensor. If that is the end result, then it will be a net negative no matter how much it saves on manufacturing. 

In terms of looks none of the camera companies out there really do it for me, outside of the more retro looking releases. Fuji and Nikon, with those more retro looking releases, are my favorite. But the look of the camera really doesn't impact my enjoyment that much. I enjoy using my Lumix cameras and love what I get out of them. It'd be cool if I looked a little more stylish while using them (lord knows I can use all the help I can get!) but it's not a deal breaker!

[MrSMW]

Well as a former S1H, S1R and OG S5 owner plus currently an S9 + S5ii + A7RV + Zf user…

I don’t ‘mind’ them essentially reusing the S5ii chassis now that they have implemented the S1H style rear screen.

The S5ii body though to me is simply adequate. 

I don’t like; the shutter mechanism sound or feel. It’s not the worst, but compared with the S1H it’s pretty poor. That is only really an issue for the photographer side of me.

The rear LCD isn’t great. Anything under 2000 wotsits isn’t great so the S1Rii despite having a better mech, is still a bit  low res for me.

The rest of the body is just OK. 

It’s OK to hold, the build is generally OK, the design/visual appeal is OK but dull.

The size & weight is good. In fact, I would not object to it being slightly heavier, but not by much.

The new S1Rii has better locking dials and positioning.

It’s not a brand new body and I do not think ‘flagship’ worthy, but I think it is a reasonably decent upgrade and overall on a rating of 1-5 is now a 3.5/4.

Compared to OG S5 = much better and that didn’t have the cooling.

Compared to the S5ii = better.

Compared to the S9 = blows it out of the water, but I did not buy the S9 for it’s build but for it’s size & weight.

Compared to the S1R = hmmm equal. The build quality of the OG S1R was/is better as is the shutter mechanism, but a bit too much whiff of old school DSLR about the S1R for me.

Compared to the S1H = a downgrade. The S1H still remains my favourite camera ever.

(I would still be using it today as my principal unit except for one single factor and that is I can’t burn a LUT into Vlog like I can with my S5ii’s, so swapped it for an S9. It makes a MASSIVE difference to my workflow and I think stuff such as digital sharpness and moire).

Compared to Zf = totally different bodies so no comparison really. The Zf is more a ‘fun but pro’ camera to me but the S5ii/S1Rii is significantly better ergonomically.

Compared to the A7RV = this is where it falls apart a bit…

The A7RV is just better built, better to hold, better to use, has a better rear LCD, better AF, smaller and lighter lenses at the same apertures, twin Type A card slots, also shoots 8k though I think it’s video specs are not quite as good so as a pure video machine, the S1Rii probably beats it for video spec.

I am no Sony fanboi and would like to hate on it if I could, but for me, right now, it is the top dog.

Would I swap it for a Leica SL-3?

Yes if I had the funds.

Would I swap it for an S1Rii?

Possibly if I was not already invested.

Would I swap it for a Z8?

Maybe… I think the Z8 body is best in class, but doesn’t quite have the lenses and that AF is slightly suspect. My Zf is certainly not as good as my A7RV.

[Andrew Reid]

12 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I understand the cost saving/standardisation perspective but I think Panasonic are definitely taking the piss a bit now by re-using the S5ii body for all their products.

Funnily enough that massive microwave screen bezel doesn't look out of place.

Only at second glance did I see it 🙂

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Well as a former S1H, S1R and OG S5 owner plus currently an S9 + S5ii + A7RV + Zf user…

I don’t ‘mind’ them essentially reusing the S5ii chassis now that they have implemented the S1H style rear screen.

The S5ii body though to me is simply adequate. 

I don’t like; the shutter mechanism sound or feel. It’s not the worst, but compared with the S1H it’s pretty poor. That is only really an issue for the photographer side of me.

The rear LCD isn’t great. Anything under 2000 wotsits isn’t great so the S1Rii despite having a better mech, is still a bit  low res for me.

The rest of the body is just OK. 

It’s OK to hold, the build is generally OK, the design/visual appeal is OK but dull.

The size & weight is good. In fact, I would not object to it being slightly heavier, but not by much.

The new S1Rii has better locking dials and positioning.

It’s not a brand new body and I do not think ‘flagship’ worthy, but I think it is a reasonably decent upgrade and overall on a rating of 1-5 is now a 3.5/4.

Compared to OG S5 = much better and that didn’t have the cooling.

Compared to the S5ii = better.

Compared to the S9 = blows it out of the water, but I did not buy the S9 for it’s build but for it’s size & weight.

Compared to the S1R = hmmm equal. The build quality of the OG S1R was/is better as is the shutter mechanism, but a bit too much whiff of old school DSLR about the S1R for me.

Compared to the S1H = a downgrade. The S1H still remains my favourite camera ever.

(I would still be using it today as my principal unit except for one single factor and that is I can’t burn a LUT into Vlog like I can with my S5ii’s, so swapped it for an S9. It makes a MASSIVE difference to my workflow and I think stuff such as digital sharpness and moire).

Compared to Zf = totally different bodies so no comparison really. The Zf is more a ‘fun but pro’ camera to me but the S5ii/S1Rii is significantly better ergonomically.

Compared to the A7RV = this is where it falls apart a bit…

The A7RV is just better built, better to hold, better to use, has a better rear LCD, better AF, smaller and lighter lenses at the same apertures, twin Type A card slots, also shoots 8k though I think it’s video specs are not quite as good so as a pure video machine, the S1Rii probably beats it for video spec.

I am no Sony fanboi and would like to hate on it if I could, but for me, right now, it is the top dog.

Would I swap it for a Leica SL-3?

Yes if I had the funds.

Would I swap it for an S1Rii?

Possibly if I was not already invested.

Would I swap it for a Z8?

Maybe… I think the Z8 body is best in class, but doesn’t quite have the lenses and that AF is slightly suspect. My Zf is certainly not as good as my A7RV.

I just think they had a chance to do something really nice, and after 7 years did something very middle of the road.

Given this is a 3600 euro camera, they could have at least kept the fancy S1H top LCD which was the finest on the market at the same time as just shrinking the body down and trimming some fat.

It would have been nice to rub some of the sharp edges off, it has no graceful curves at all.

The S9 also looks very basic and unimaginative, yet with a few tweaks and a viewfinder could have looked lovely. It doesn't need to be X100 level, just better than boring and mediocre.

S5 II is not the type of body that screams to pick it up for fun.

And I really dislike the rear jog dial, it's so spongey.

If they had kept the basic S1H body concept to the tee, just added some nice curved edges and shrunk it in size without removing key features or shrinking the screens... that would have been the Pana flagship for the ages.

Instead we got pure dullness!

The question is, if they are coming out with an S1H II later this year will they also do an S5 II replica, or push out something more exciting?

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The new S1Rii has better locking dials and positioning.

I'm against the new stills/movie/S&Q dial being on the left. You can't operate it quickly under your main gripping hand with the rest of the controls. Nobody quite seems to have been able to grasp yet that Canon got it right in the DSLR days with the 70D stills/movie mode switch near the AF-On button!

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Compared to OG S5 = much better and that didn’t have the cooling.

Compared to the S5ii = better.

Compared to the S9 = blows it out of the water, but I did not buy the S9 for it’s build but for it’s size & weight.

Compared to the S1R = hmmm equal. The build quality of the OG S1R was/is better as is the shutter mechanism, but a bit too much whiff of old school DSLR about the S1R for me.

Compared to the S1H = a downgrade. The S1H still remains my favourite camera ever.

Aside from S9 I agree, S9 is designed to be something different and fun. I'd prefer to pick that up for certain things over the S1R II.

Better than OG S5 but that was pretty terrible, one of the least inspiring designs and EVFs ever, even for 5 years ago.

S5 II was an improvement but not by enough. It's a bit like the difference between a7 II and III.

Because Panasonic entered the full frame market so late they have not been able to go through 5 generations of iterative kaizen like Sony. The GH2 and in a different way GH5 remains for me one of the best Panasonic cameras looks and ergonomics wise but they have tossed those older designs out completely now rather than evolving from them.

S1H with the mechanical shutter and top panel is wonderful isn't it? Just a bit clunky and dated now.

5 hours ago, MrSMW said:

The A7RV is just better built, better to hold, better to use, has a better rear LCD, better AF, smaller and lighter lenses at the same apertures, twin Type A card slots, also shoots 8k though I think it’s video specs are not quite as good so as a pure video machine, the S1Rii probably beats it for video spec.

I would take the S1R II's image and video capabilities over the A7R V but 100% agree with everything else!

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

I just think they had a chance to do something really nice, and after 7 years did something very middle of the road.

I don't disagree! It's almost as if they had an agreement with Leica, "OK, you can be the premium one" and with Sigma, "OK you can be the slightly wacky one" and we'll be "the safe and uninspiring one".

I think with the S9 they at least tried 'very slightly' by offering them in different colours. I went for red because I am totally krayzee.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

S5 II is not the type of body that screams to pick it up for fun

Which is (partly) why I bought my Zf. My only issue with that is it's a bit bigger than I'd like and I might trade it for a Sony A7C that will pair better with my A7RV...but then I bought my A7RV over the A7CR/A7C because the A7RV is a vastly better piece of kit than either of those which only inspire me because of their size.

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

S1H with the mechanical shutter and top panel is wonderful isn't it? Just a bit clunky and dated now

I don't think so. Slightly bigger and heavier than I'd like, but if with just firmware alone, they would add the ability to burn in a LUT, I'd go back to it in a heartbeat. 

But then again having said that, add crop markers to my A7RV and I think I'd pick that.

The bottom line is no one yet quite makes my perfect camera!

 Give me an A7RV with the video spec of the new LUMIX and it's crop markers etc with a Nikon badge on it.

When I put it that way, the S1Rii is possibly the closest to my ideal 🤔

[BTM_Pix]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Funnily enough that massive microwave screen bezel doesn't look out of place.

Only at second glance did I see it 🙂

To return the design language, it would be a nice touch when the S1R II overheats to have a loud “DING!” to let you know it’s done instead of a boring symbol on the rear screen.

[Thpriest]

I like the S5 type bodies. They are comfortable and ergonomic. Personally I prefer the Lumix look to Canon and Sony (apart from the FX line). I’ve not used the A7RV just the A74 from that line. I prefer the S5mk2 but I’ve mainly used Lumix for years so that could be built in bias due to familiarity. I’d love to have the EVF and fancy LCD from the S1R2on the S5mk2. For me the only way these types of cameras are going to get better ergonomically is to have a rotating grip with controls like the Canon C100 had and a flip up EVF. 
As for a camera being fun or not, whilst I understand the feeling behind that, for me it’s irrelevant as I use them for work and work only. For “fun” stuff I’d prefer a small m43 or mobile or similar.

[cosarth]

I think that the peak of Lumix design was with the OG G9. Βalanced body, beautiful styling, deep grip, top LCD, pro built.

Was kind of expecting for them to build on that design for future models, but may it rest in peace now...

[Andrew Reid]

17 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

To return the design language, it would be a nice touch when the S1R II overheats to have a loud “DING!” to let you know it’s done instead of a boring symbol on the rear screen.

A great way to let everyone know that dinner's ready and shoot is off.

Canon should have thought of this too.

Clearly S1H Mark II needs to be in the GH1 form factor. It's the only way to save Panasonic. Back to basics. With a gold edition too.

[Andrew Reid]

20 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I don't disagree! It's almost as if they had an agreement with Leica, "OK, you can be the premium one" and with Sigma, "OK you can be the slightly wacky one" and we'll be "the safe and uninspiring one".

No the L-mount alliance agreement goes like this.

L squared... Sigma undercuts Leica with sexy aluminum unibody full frame cameras for under $2k.

Panasonic charges Leica money for zoom lenses and supplies old sensors to Leica for their 2025 cameras.

Leica get to die.

Sounds like an alliance to make NATO look dodgy!