Best sub $1k hybrid camera setup for filming pottery (AF in Video not important)

[alsoandrew]

Title says it all but here are some more details. I don't make any money from my ceramics yet so looking to keep it under $1k. My current top choices are either the Nikon Z6 or Panasonic S5. Mainly looking at full frame as I used a Fujifilm XT-2 for mostly street photography while traveling and felt like the sensor size limited my framing options and depth of field. This also might be down to the 18-55mm f2.8-4 kit lens tbh. Unfortunately I gave that camera to my brother so need to get a new one.

My use case:

• taking photos of my ceramics to post to social media/show to galleries
• taking videos of making ceramics to grow my social media presence
• some street/architectural/landscape photography on the side

My current criteria:

• Sub $1k for body + 50mm lens, sub $1.5k including tripod, mic, basic lighting, storage
• 4k recording so I have options to crop in vertical or horizontal
• Unlimited recording time so I don't have to fiddle with camera with muddy hands (wish)
• Record externally to SSD thru USB C (wish)
• Easy workflow as I am new to video 
  • why I am not considering 5D MkIII w/ ML
• Upgrade progression in mount. I plan to eventually get another camera so I can have a B cam and film multiple angles
  • S5IIX would be good enough for every use case I can think of but Nikon RED acquisition looks interesting too. Nikon still can't record externally to SSD tho

My questions:

• Do I actually need 10bit or Log if the content is mainly being seen on Social Media and I am mainly in a studio where I can control exposure/lighting
  • Is down sampling the 4k 8 bit of the Z6 to 1080p enough? 
• Is there any alternative to Ninja V if I want to record externally to SSD, outside of going up in budget to the S5IIX or Sigma Fp
• Does it even matter if I choose Z6 or S5 if I am only using vintage lenses to start and eventually get a Ninja V 

Here are some examples videos from artists I admire

 

[Andrew Reid]

Curious about the wish to record externally. The internal codecs are so good these days and SD cards so cheap that you don't need to.

What continuous run-times are we talking about, will it be many hours?

I would try and find a used Panasonic S1H for under $1k or cheap Sigma Fp deal.

Nikon Z6 is a decent choice and best value.

Sony a7 III? OK it's not 10bit but S-LOG2 grades well in 8bit, small file sizes in 4K and it has decent low light too.

The older a7s II is also worth a look.

But the cheapest 10bit camera is the Panasonic S1. Also worth a look but check the recording time limits!

[alsoandrew]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Curious about the wish to record externally. The internal codecs are so good these days and SD cards so cheap that you don't need to.

What continuous run-times are we talking about, will it be many hours?

I would try and find a used Panasonic S1H for under $1k or cheap Sigma Fp deal.

Nikon Z6 is a decent choice and best value.

Sony a7 III? OK it's not 10bit but S-LOG2 grades well in 8bit, small file sizes in 4K and it has decent low light too.

The older a7s II is also worth a look.

But the cheapest 10bit camera is the Panasonic S1. Also worth a look but check the recording time limits!

Hmm maybe I am overestimating the storage needed. I would say longest I would like to continuously record would be around 45min-1hr but I would like to shoot 2-3 of those videos a session without having to transfer the data to an external SSD. To start out it is not necessary (4k and 10bit probably overkill tbh) but would be something nice to have in the future. It seems that beyond 128gb the price of SD cards jump up a lot. 

 

Is there a huge difference between the Z6 and A7III in video? A7III is still about $1k mark while I can get a refurbished Z6 from B&H for $750. Panasonic S5 is around $730 from Lens Rentals.

 

S1 is still sitting around $1k and S1H is around $1.4k unfortunately.

[IronFilm]

3 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

Mainly looking at full frame as I used a Fujifilm XT-2 for mostly street photography while traveling and felt like the sensor size limited my framing options and depth of field. This also might be down to the 18-55mm f2.8-4 kit lens tbh.

Sensor size is not your issue. 

Just get yourself the battery grip (to unlock longer recording times) for the X-T2 and you've got a good starting setup at a very low cost. 

3 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

Unfortunately I gave that camera to my brother so need to get a new one.

oh well, that crosses out the X-T2 option.

Get a Panasonic S5 mk1?

3 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

Sub $1k for body, sub $1.5k including lenses, tripod, mic, basic lighting, storage

$1.5K in total once you include everything? So only $500 for lenses/tripod/mic/lighting/accessories/etc??

Gee, spending $1K on the body is waaaaaaay too much. Especially as you're not making any money at all on this. 

Honestly I'd suggest you instead spend your money on getting a dirt cheap Panasonic GH4 (or perhaps a GH5S if you can stretch it, as I see the cheapest are nearly six hundred bucks: https://www.ebay.com/itm/126984184008 )

Then put the rest of the money into: lighting, tripod, lenses, media, audio. You'll find that money will very quickly disappear. 

Panasonic 7-14mm f/4 => https://www.ebay.com/itm/146362468802 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1725975-REG/ttartisan_c2520_b_m43_25mm_f_2_aps_c_compact.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732932-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a010s_m_35mm_f_1_4_lens_for.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1774976-REG/smallrig_3751b_ad_01_heavy_duty_tripod_with.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1852610-REG/tascam_fr_av2_32_bit_float_recorder_timecode_generator.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/850444-REG/Impact_ls_ct40mbk_Turtle_Base_C_Stand_Kit.html (two or even four+ of these)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1606022-REG/auray_bp_59a_5_section_aluminum_boom_pole.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/242661-REG/Audix_SCX1_HC_SCX1_HC_Microphone.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1155648-REG/rycote_037340_universal_shotgun_mount_for.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488633-REG/trp_worldwide_4848uf_48x48_ultrabounce_floppy_with.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1484381-REG/aputure_lantern_360_degrees_softbox.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1753989-REG/amaran_apm022da10_amaran_cob_200d_s.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1387572-REG/genaray_blt_60_bullet_led_focusing_spot.html

etc etc etc

For a $1.5K total budget then a secondhand GH4 seems like the right way to go, or maybe a GH5S.

 

[Walter H]

Given your budget constraints and the intention to have controlled lighting, the suggestions provided by @ironfilm are really strong. If you need to stretch your budget more, you may need to look at third-party used via eBay or FB marketplace (if you are in the US). Fredmiranda is a place I prefer to buy & sell but you need to get known there before you can PM people for purchases, which is a good thing. I picked up a perfect Panasonic 20-60mm there for $210 recently.

If full-frame is a requirement for you, the Panasonic S1 has no record time limit but the S5 does - 29:59 (although that limit might now exist with an external recorder). But the S5 does have a screen that flips out and twists so that you can see yourself and see your framing once you get to work and make any adjustments. Helpful. 

Is filming in 422 Log necessary? Probably not. I can't speak to Nikon and NLog but having filmed so, so many hours of Panasonic's VLog, it's been robust, flexible, easy to work with, produces a beautiful image. The 150Mbps 4:2:2 4K is honestly very efficient for the file that you get and I've never felt the need to record externally with my S1. 

[newfoundmass]

I don't see why you couldn't get a used Lumix S5, a used 50mm f1.8, a tripod, mic, and lights for $1.5k.

If you get the Lumix S5 for $730 and the Lumix 50mm f1.8 for under $250 (https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/panasonic-lumix-s-50mm-f-1-8) then you're already under $1k.

That leaves you with $500 for a tripod, mic and lighting. That's very easy. There are so many decent affordable options in those categories these days. 

[alsoandrew]

2 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Sensor size is not your issue. 

Just get yourself the battery grip (to unlock longer recording times) for the X-T2 and you've got a good starting setup at a very low cost. 

oh well, that crosses out the X-T2 option.

Get a Panasonic S5 mk1?

$1.5K in total once you include everything? So only $500 for lenses/tripod/mic/lighting/accessories/etc??

Gee, spending $1K on the body is waaaaaaay too much. Especially as you're not making any money at all on this. 

Honestly I'd suggest you instead spend your money on getting a dirt cheap Panasonic GH4 (or perhaps a GH5S if you can stretch it, as I see the cheapest are nearly six hundred bucks: https://www.ebay.com/itm/126984184008 )

Then put the rest of the money into: lighting, tripod, lenses, media, audio. You'll find that money will very quickly disappear. 

Panasonic 7-14mm f/4 => https://www.ebay.com/itm/146362468802 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1725975-REG/ttartisan_c2520_b_m43_25mm_f_2_aps_c_compact.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1732932-REG/7artisans_photoelectric_a010s_m_35mm_f_1_4_lens_for.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1774976-REG/smallrig_3751b_ad_01_heavy_duty_tripod_with.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1852610-REG/tascam_fr_av2_32_bit_float_recorder_timecode_generator.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/850444-REG/Impact_ls_ct40mbk_Turtle_Base_C_Stand_Kit.html (two or even four+ of these)

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1606022-REG/auray_bp_59a_5_section_aluminum_boom_pole.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/242661-REG/Audix_SCX1_HC_SCX1_HC_Microphone.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1155648-REG/rycote_037340_universal_shotgun_mount_for.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1488633-REG/trp_worldwide_4848uf_48x48_ultrabounce_floppy_with.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1484381-REG/aputure_lantern_360_degrees_softbox.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1753989-REG/amaran_apm022da10_amaran_cob_200d_s.html 

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1387572-REG/genaray_blt_60_bullet_led_focusing_spot.html

etc etc etc

For a $1.5K total budget then a secondhand GH4 seems like the right way to go, or maybe a GH5S.

 

Thank you for the recommendations.

Meant to say sub $1k for body + adapted 50mm vintage lens. Tbh I am not sure if I need that level of audio and lighting yet at the moment. I feel like you give too much away with the GH5/4 in photo. This guy is doing pretty well and his setup is 5D MkIII, Canon Primes, LED panel lights from amazon, Manfrotto 055 Tripod, and natural light. IDK if he even color grades his videos. I have a tendency to overcomplicate things tbh.

This is my current list:

I think $500-600 for storage, lighting, tripod, mic is doable if ordering from Aliexpress. Not sure if you are aware but most low end tripods (Smallrig, Leofoto, Sirui, Benro, etc) are white labled from the same factories and you can order from the factory brand via Aliexpress for 1/2-2/3 the price. I have not fully done the research but I'm assuming/hoping it is the same for lighting. My studio is in the basement so not a huge amount of natural light. Not even sure where to start regarding lighting but this is the list I've built up. 

 

 

 

 

[alsoandrew]

53 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't see why you couldn't get a used Lumix S5, a used 50mm f1.8, a tripod, mic, and lights for $1.5k.

If you get the Lumix S5 for $730 and the Lumix 50mm f1.8 for under $250 (https://www.mpb.com/en-us/product/panasonic-lumix-s-50mm-f-1-8) then you're already under $1k.

That leaves you with $500 for a tripod, mic and lighting. That's very easy. 

What lighting would you suggest? I am thinking of buying a main light + parabolic diffusor and a panel light. Maybe some reflectors, a matte panel, C stands, and some paper lanterns. And repurposing a few desk lamps and floor lamps for the rest. 

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, Walter H said:

If full-frame is a requirement for you, the Panasonic S1 has no record time limit but the S5 does - 29:59 (although that limit might now exist with an external recorder). But the S5 does have a screen that flips out and twists so that you can see yourself and see your framing once you get to work and make any adjustments. Helpful. 

 

@alsoandrew could use a remote record button to start / stop the recordings with, such as this:

https://www.amazon.com/Including-Trigger-Compatible-Panasonic-Fujifilm/dp/B0CP1PGWPX

That way they don't need to worry about their dirty hands touching their camera!

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I don't see why you couldn't get a used Lumix S5, a used 50mm f1.8, a tripod, mic, and lights for $1.5k.

Just a 50mm? Probably won't be wide enough for everything they want to do. Thus why I suggested they get three lenses. 

 

1 hour ago, alsoandrew said:

Meant to say sub $1k for body + adapted 50mm vintage lens. Tbh I am not sure if I need that level of audio and lighting yet at the moment. I feel like you give too much away with the GH5/4 in photo. This guy is doing pretty well and his setup is 5D MkIII, Canon Primes, LED panel lights from amazon, Manfrotto 055 Tripod, and natural light. IDK if he even color grades his videos. I have a tendency to overcomplicate things tbh.

If that's the standard you've set your expectations to, then yeah, a Panasonic GH5S/G9/etc is easily good enough.

1 hour ago, alsoandrew said:

 

If you're seriously committed to the idea of going FF, no matter what, then at least go for a S5mk1 instead of a Z6mk1.

[newfoundmass]

4 hours ago, Walter H said:

If full-frame is a requirement for you, the Panasonic S1 has no record time limit but the S5 does - 29:59 (although that limit might now exist with an external recorder). But the S5 does have a screen that flips out and twists so that you can see yourself and see your framing once you get to work and make any adjustments. Helpful. 

Just a small correction: the Lumix S5 has unlimited record times in 4K 8 bit except 60P. Record limits are for 4K60p and 10-bit.

2 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

What lighting would you suggest? I am thinking of buying a main light + parabolic diffusor and a panel light. Maybe some reflectors, a matte panel, C stands, and some paper lanterns. And repurposing a few desk lamps and floor lamps for the rest. 

There are SO MANY options when it comes to affordable lighting these days. I mean, realistically, you could get away with $7 clamp lights, cheap LED bulbs and using shower curtains as diffusion to start off. Especially if it's only ever gonna be used in your "studio". 

Here are a couple videos that might be of some help when it comes to lighting. Markus is an eccentric, kinda weird fella and I don't always agree with his conclusions, but his videos are always interesting and he buys a lot of stuff to try out (just try not to get suckered into his health/motivational grift):

 

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Just a 50mm? Probably won't be wide enough for everything they want to do. Thus why I suggested they get three lenses. 

I was just going by what he wrote in his original post! He mentioned wanting a camera and a 50mm. I'd recommend he goes with the 20-60mm kit lens too. f3.5 isn't bad at all on the wide end and it's a really good quality lens to the point that it's kinda insulting to call it a kit lens when compared to every other kit lens out there. I use it on almost every professional shoot I do.

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

If you're seriously committed to the idea of going FF, no matter what, then at least go for a S5mk1 instead of a Z6mk1.

Yeah, the Z6 is a lot more limited when it comes to video than the Lumix S5 is. The S5 is very much a video focused hybrid, while the Z6 was a photo camera that also did some video. It was a big step forward for Nikon in the department, but the S5 is superior in every way other way when it comes to video other than maybe autofocus.

[newfoundmass]

Also, instead of the Deity I would go with the RODE VideoMic GO II. It will sound pretty good as a boom mic if boomed close enough and is surprisingly decent directly plugged into your computer if you need to do voice overs, since it has a USB-C connection.

[IronFilm]

56 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I was just going by what he wrote in his original post! He mentioned wanting a camera and a 50mm. I'd recommend he goes with the 20-60mm kit lens too. f3.5 isn't bad at all on the wide end and it's a really good quality lens to the point that it's kinda insulting to call it a kit lens when compared to every other kit lens out there. I use it on almost every professional shoot I do.

I was going by what was said by OP in their first person:

9 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

Mainly looking at full frame as I used a Fujifilm XT-2 for mostly street photography while traveling and felt like the sensor size limited my framing options and depth of field. This also might be down to the 18-55mm f2.8-4 kit lens tbh.

Usually when a newbie says something like that then this is a strong hint they lacked a wide angle lens, due to saying the sensor "limited my framing options". Which as you'd know, is nonsense! You can have any framing with any sensor. 

(Although....  there is the point about DoF, which is a bit of a red flag if they also think AF is totally irrelevant while expecting to shot at very shallow DoF???) 

48 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Also, instead of the Deity I would go with the RODE VideoMic GO II. It will sound pretty good as a boom mic if boomed close enough and is surprisingly decent directly plugged into your computer if you need to do voice overs, since it has a USB-C connection.

Both of these pain me so much. 

[mercer]

Since this is essentially product photography, I'd say that the camera doesn't matter as much as your lighting.

If you want full frame, probably any full frame camera that shoots video made in the past 10-15 years would do.

Then again, on the opposite end of the spectrum, a camcorder will give you the unlimited run times you may need as well.

I understand your point about media and that would be a major concern for me as well. The SD cards needed for high quality 4K are expensive so I would pick a camera that uses CF, CF Express or an SSD, although I personally loathe SSDs attached to a camera but for your use, it makes sense.

So that narrows your options down a bit. From Canon, any of the 5D series cameras from the Mark II on would work. I'd imaging the Nikon D series full frame cameras would also be fine. The D750 shoots nice video. But you did mention 4K so that will complicate things a bit. Someone mentioned a GH5s, and if you did choose to go with a crop sensor camera, I'd look at the GH6. Professional codecs, CF Express or SSD recording, etc...

But I'd also look into timelapse photography because you may be able to get a bigger bang for your buck?

To add, not all of my suggestions will give you the 4K you originally stated you wanted, but based on the example you provided, I don't think you need it.

Anyway, good luck. And thanks for the post. It's interesting to see what other people are creating!

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Both of these pain me so much. 

I get it, but it's probably the best mic under $100 that he can get and better than the Deity he was considering. 

For someone just shooting YouTube videos that aren't generating revenue it's more than enough. 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

I understand your point about media and that would be a major concern for me as well. The SD cards needed for high quality 4K are expensive so I would pick a camera that uses CF, CF Express or an SSD, although I personally loathe SSDs attached to a camera but for your use, it makes sense.

You can film 4K on cheap v30 cards. You can get a 256gb SD card for under $40 and a 512gb SD card for under $60. I use them on my S5 and S5II X.

[IronFilm]

2 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

I get it, but it's probably the best mic under $100 that he can get and better than the Deity he was considering. 

For someone just shooting YouTube videos that aren't generating revenue it's more than enough. 

It's more the extreme mismatch in equipment that grates me, picking a camera with an 8 out of 10 image quality but choosing for audio a 3 out of 10 (as sure, 3 out of 10 is good enough audio quality for casual YT videos, but then again so is a 3 out of 10 quality video camera.... such as a cellphone or a T3i)

 

[BTM_Pix]

As it’s the current obsession in camera world, I’m trying to work out what would happen if you used a camera with terrible rolling shutter when filming pottery throwing when it starts to go awry on the wheel and gets the wobbles.

 

Will it make it look like a lava lamp or will it go the other way and cross the streams in the Steven Wright “I put instant coffee in a microwave and almost went back in time” way ?

[Andrew Reid]

11 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

Hmm maybe I am overestimating the storage needed. I would say longest I would like to continuously record would be around 45min-1hr but I would like to shoot 2-3 of those videos a session without having to transfer the data to an external SSD. To start out it is not necessary (4k and 10bit probably overkill tbh) but would be something nice to have in the future. It seems that beyond 128gb the price of SD cards jump up a lot. 

 

Is there a huge difference between the Z6 and A7III in video? A7III is still about $1k mark while I can get a refurbished Z6 from B&H for $750. Panasonic S5 is around $730 from Lens Rentals.

 

S1 is still sitting around $1k and S1H is around $1.4k unfortunately.

You'll be amazed at the quality of 10bit H.265 LOG at low bitrates, even as low as 50Mbit/s

Unless you're doing very heavy VFX / grading / lifting shadows 5 stops for HDR puke look - it looks excellent.

The Z6 and a7 III have a similar image, similar spec, same sensor, it comes down to price, lenses, mount, and if the a7 III is as high as $1k I would choose the $750 Z6 instead. The s5 has 10bit LOG, as long as you're happy with a much worse EVF and autofocus than Z6.

One of the cheapest and most capable 10bit cameras under $700 is the Fuji X-T3.

The Z6 has no N-LOG but you can install my own EOSHD Z-LOG profile and use LUTs.

If you absolutely need 10bit LOG rather than 8bit Panasonic is pretty much only full frame choice for very cheap under $800.

[Andrew Reid]

5 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Yeah, the Z6 is a lot more limited when it comes to video than the Lumix S5 is. The S5 is very much a video focused hybrid, while the Z6 was a photo camera that also did some video. It was a big step forward for Nikon in the department, but the S5 is superior in every way other way when it comes to video other than maybe autofocus.

Scratch the maybe... it is practically broken for autofocus whereas the a7 III and Z6 are very capable indeed.

There's not as much difference as the specs suggest between 8bit H.264 and 10bit H.265 even in LOG. None in the standard colour profiles and barely any difference shooting in flat profile.

The S5 video features it's true there's some bells and whistles added.

But the Z6 doesn't lack for anything major, just the smaller assists and things - and the IBIS is just as good too in 4K.

I don't think he's shooting anamorphic so doesn't need the extra S5 modes there?

[Andrew Reid]

If you only plan to go with an adapted cheap 50mm prime, the S1 is better due to the better EVF and less fiddly control layout.

The EVF on the S5 and manual focus is a horrible experience.