Best sub $1k hybrid camera setup for filming pottery (AF in Video not important)

[MrSMW]

Comfortably within budget:

LUMIX S1 (used)

20-60mm (used)

Rode Micro 

Tripod

Light

🧨 Boom 🧨

[eatstoomuchjam]

To go a different way, and I don't think I saw it suggested yet, why not just get a tripod mount and a decent modern iPhone?  On 15/16, you can easily record nice quality ProRes/log to an external SSD (or even to CF with a USB-C to CF adapter).  Combine it with a decent mic and you're set.

[alsoandrew]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

@alsoandrew could use a remote record button to start / stop the recordings with, such as this:

https://www.amazon.com/Including-Trigger-Compatible-Panasonic-Fujifilm/dp/B0CP1PGWPX

That way they don't need to worry about their dirty hands touching their camera!

Good idea. I hadn't even thought of that option but I will definitely get one!

6 hours ago, mercer said:

To add, not all of my suggestions will give you the 4K you originally stated you wanted, but based on the example you provided, I don't think you need it.

Anyway, good luck. And thanks for the post. It's interesting to see what other people are creating!

Thanks for the advice. I think a time lapse feature would be useful for hand building but for throwing its a bit too slow to match the movement. I will definitely try to post a video here once I get up and running.

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Just a small correction: the Lumix S5 has unlimited record times in 4K 8 bit except 60P. Record limits are for 4K60p and 10-bit.

 

I was just going by what he wrote in his original post! He mentioned wanting a camera and a 50mm. I'd recommend he goes with the 20-60mm kit lens too. f3.5 isn't bad at all on the wide end and it's a really good quality lens to the point that it's kinda insulting to call it a kit lens when compared to every other kit lens out there. I use it on almost every professional shoot I do.

Yeah, the Z6 is a lot more limited when it comes to video than the Lumix S5 is. The S5 is very much a video focused hybrid, while the Z6 was a photo camera that also did some video. It was a big step forward for Nikon in the department, but the S5 is superior in every way other way when it comes to video other than maybe autofocus.

That guys seems to be right up my alley with the janky alternatives lol. Hmm definitely leaning towards the S5 then if record limit is not going to be an issue. How are the colors SOOC? Like I said to start I tend to overthink things so hoping to get a few videos out there with minimal editing/setup and learn the more advanced stuff as I go.

[alsoandrew]

29 minutes ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

To go a different way, and I don't think I saw it suggested yet, why not just get a tripod mount and a decent modern iPhone?  On 15/16, you can easily record nice quality ProRes/log to an external SSD (or even to CF with a USB-C to CF adapter).  Combine it with a decent mic and you're set.

Yep I already am doing that with my iPhone 13 Pro and planning to use that as my A/B cam to start (most likely to get hte wide angle shot). Altho I need to get a new tripod and phone mount because the one I bought in Japan for $15 disintegrating. I just loathe the lack of manual adjustability on the phone. Pottery (vlogging) on social media these days is also kind of saturated. I am not looking to become a vlogger but I am hoping filming with more careful framing, lighting, and depth of field.

[ac6000cw]

5 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

You can film 4K on cheap v30 cards. You can get a 256gb SD card for under $40 and a 512gb SD card for under $60. I use them on my S5 and S5II X.

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You'll be amazed at the quality of 10bit H.265 LOG at low bitrates, even as low as 50Mbit/s

I agree, and a decent U3/V30 rated SDXC card can handle 200 Mbit/s (25 Mbyte/s) no problem, which is very high bitrate for long-GOP HEVC and should be pretty much transparent video quality.

I've been using relatively cheap 128GB or 256GB Sandisk Extreme or Samsung Pro Plus UHS-1 U3/V30 cards for years (both rated for over 100 Mbyte/s write speeds by their manufacturers).

[alsoandrew]

2 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

As it’s the current obsession in camera world, I’m trying to work out what would happen if you used a camera with terrible rolling shutter when filming pottery throwing when it starts to go awry on the wheel and gets the wobbles.

 

Will it make it look like a lava lamp or will it go the other way and cross the streams in the Steven Wright “I put instant coffee in a microwave and almost went back in time” way ?

 I'm hoping that isn't a huge issue as pulling the clay is not crazy fast, and I try not to make those mistakes that often :).

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You'll be amazed at the quality of 10bit H.265 LOG at low bitrates, even as low as 50Mbit/s

Unless you're doing very heavy VFX / grading / lifting shadows 5 stops for HDR puke look - it looks excellent.

The Z6 and a7 III have a similar image, similar spec, same sensor, it comes down to price, lenses, mount, and if the a7 III is as high as $1k I would choose the $750 Z6 instead. The s5 has 10bit LOG, as long as you're happy with a much worse EVF and autofocus than Z6.

One of the cheapest and most capable 10bit cameras under $700 is the Fuji X-T3.

The Z6 has no N-LOG but you can install my own EOSHD Z-LOG profile and use LUTs.

If you absolutely need 10bit LOG rather than 8bit Panasonic is pretty much only full frame choice for very cheap under $800.

Yeah I am not sure I need 10 bit log tbh. Don't think intra frame compression matters either if the wheel is just rotating in place. How is the color SOOC with minimal editing for the Panasonic vs Nikon?

Somehow the Fuji XT-3 is around $850 in the US due to all the Fuji hype from YT :(. It was my first thought too 

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Scratch the maybe... it is practically broken for autofocus whereas the a7 III and Z6 are very capable indeed.

There's not as much difference as the specs suggest between 8bit H.264 and 10bit H.265 even in LOG. None in the standard colour profiles and barely any difference shooting in flat profile.

The S5 video features it's true there's some bells and whistles added.

But the Z6 doesn't lack for anything major, just the smaller assists and things - and the IBIS is just as good too in 4K.

I don't think he's shooting anamorphic so doesn't need the extra S5 modes there?

Hmm Anamorphic seems interesting to play around but in the far, far, future

2 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

If you only plan to go with an adapted cheap 50mm prime, the S1 is better due to the better EVF and less fiddly control layout.

The EVF on the S5 and manual focus is a horrible experience.

I think main problem with S1 is size (would like to be able to take the camera to galleries or on the street) and +$250 in price. Is manual focus such a huge issue with focus peaking and a static subject? I plan to tape where the tripod sits and mostly never move it. 

Eventually I would like to film some interviews/short studio tours with artists when I go to Asia to visit family this summer but I am not so sure I need AF for that. 

Also thank you everyone for the suggestions. I think I am going to pick up the S5 from B&H this weekend unless there is a huge difference to the Z6 in terms of color science. 

[BTM_Pix]

12 minutes ago, alsoandrew said:

I'm hoping that isn't a huge issue as pulling the clay is not crazy fast, and I try not to make those mistakes that often :).

I’m sure it will be fine.

As an aside for anyone that has watched the show, this is basically an advertorial about the Atomos sync products but The Great Pottery Throwdown uses FX9, A7siii and twelve GoProHero 11.

https://www.atomos.com/2024/01/08/atomos-airglu-great-pottery-throwdown/

[ac6000cw]

25 minutes ago, alsoandrew said:

Pottery (vlogging) on social media these days is also kind of saturated. I am not looking to become a vlogger but I am hoping filming with more careful framing, lighting, and depth of field.

I think pretty much any sector on social media (unless it's very, very niche) is going to be saturated with content. All you can really do is make your content as interesting and easy to watch as possible. If you are going to be on-camera and/or talking to the audience it'll probably take lots of practice and time to develop your 'presentation style' unless you have a natural talent for it. Those things are far more important than small differences in picture quality between cameras etc. that your viewers won't notice. Don't over-think the hardware side of things and buy extra stuff that you think you *might* need (and then waste time working out how to use it) - the KISS principle.

[mercer]

Is the S5 waterproof? With all you guys talking it up so much, now I want one.

[MrSMW]

19 minutes ago, mercer said:

Is the S5 waterproof? With all you guys talking it up so much, now I want one.

Yes, absolutely, I took mine when swimming with dolphins.

But sherioushly, it has a weather sealing rating as do some but not all of the lenses.

I really did like my S5...at the time, but would easily choose an S1 over it now as a used option.

Or an S5ii/S1H and especially the S1H now they are so cheap.

And to answer the "is it bigger?" Q, of course, but not by that much. Nothing that would bother me anyway.

Looking for something more discrete for travel and galleries and museums etc, maybe better off with something like one of the cropped mirrorless bodies from Canon or Fuji or something like the A6000 range from Sony?

An XT3 would be an excellent choice and something like the XS-20 (under 1k used) would also make a good option.

[MrSMW]

Actually, a used ‘like new’ LUMIX S9 with all the bits & bobs will just sneak into this budget and would double very well as an EDC non-pro looking camera.

[eatstoomuchjam]

3 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

I just loathe the lack of manual adjustability on the phone. Pottery (vlogging) on social media these days is also kind of saturated. I am not looking to become a vlogger but I am hoping filming with more careful framing, lighting, and depth of field.

Which manual adjustability are you missing?  If you install the Black Magic Camera app, you have manual control of a bunch of stuff on the iPhone.

I moved from an iPhone 13 Pro to an iPhone 16 Pro.  Prores in log on the 16 Pro is a whole lot nicer than any of the modes that I had available on my 13.  

Anyway, careful framing and lighting are completely unrelated to the camera being used.  Depending on what you mean by wanting to stand out with "depth of field," the iPhone also has computational simulation for it.  If the goal is primarily YouTube and the like, it's unlikely that most viewers would object to the difference between computational shallow DOF and real shallow DOF (unless you showed them side-by-side and then most people would, I think, prefer the real thing).

I'm just saying - the newer iPhones are shockingly good and in addition to getting a nicer camera, you'll also have a nicer phone.  😃

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, eatstoomuchjam said:

I am not looking to become a vlogger but I am hoping filming with more careful framing, lighting, and depth of field.

OK. Then lighting lighting lighting.

With some stage management, so mostly likely, multiple lights.

IMO the single biggest thing that will differentiate yourself from the rest.

[newfoundmass]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It's more the extreme mismatch in equipment that grates me, picking a camera with an 8 out of 10 image quality but choosing for audio a 3 out of 10 (as sure, 3 out of 10 is good enough audio quality for casual YT videos, but then again so is a 3 out of 10 quality video camera.... such as a cellphone or a T3i)

 

I get it, but you can get fine audio from almost any mic, as long as it's close enough to the source. Add some tweaking in post if needed and 99% of those watching aren't gonna notice the difference between a $100 mic and $500+ mic. As long as it's not peaking, there's no hum or other noise, it will be sufficient for YouTube.

I mean, heck, going back to my buddy that uses a cheap Movo wireless mic going into a T3i that has terrible audio preamps! That gets used on the local nightly news on the NBC affiliate!

4 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

That guys seems to be right up my alley with the janky alternatives lol. Hmm definitely leaning towards the S5 then if record limit is not going to be an issue. How are the colors SOOC? Like I said to start I tend to overthink things so hoping to get a few videos out there with minimal editing/setup and learn the more advanced stuff as I go.

I quite like Lumix colors, and the natural profile on the S5 is what I usually go with when I don't need to do heavy grading. As long as your white balance and exposure is set correctly you'll get very good results, and 8-bit is good enough to do some tweaks as long as you don't try to push the colors too much. 

Markus is great in that he thinks of some creative ideas, especially outside the box ones. I quite like his video/photo content, though when I read up more about him I cringed quite a bit when it comes to his health/motivational speaking stuff. Aside from disagreeing with most of it, he is accused of hiring people to attend tapings so that it looks like he's giving these motivational speeches in front of large crowds that uses for promotional videos when they are just paid actors. So I just stick to the video/photo channel, haha!

 

4 hours ago, alsoandrew said:

Is manual focus such a huge issue with focus peaking and a static subject? I plan to tape where the tripod sits and mostly never move it. 

I've never had an issue with using manual focus on the Lumix S5, and I usually use the screen instead of the EVF (I know, I know!) You can also buy a cheap 5 or 7 inch monitor if you have trouble nailing focus, but I've never had that problem personally.

Also auto focus really isn't that bad on the S5, especially if you are there to monitor it. I definitely understand why people who are used to PDAF complain, but I've used it for year and really don't have a ton of complaints about the auto focus, especially once you get used to its quirks. I know @MrSMW, who also used the S5 a lot, has similar views. Having PDAF on my S5II X is nice, but I still use AF on my two S5 bodies and it's "fine."

3 hours ago, mercer said:

Is the S5 waterproof? With all you guys talking it up so much, now I want one.

It's weather and dust proof! Haha! I am not trying to be a shill, but it really does blow my mind that this camera is so readily available for under $1000 on the used market. I just don't think you can beat it when it comes to video features, especially when it comes to full frame. It is very easy to overlook the EVF and auto focus when you take into consideration how powerful it is in every other way. And it's a camera that will still stand up 5 years from now, in terms of image quality and usability. 

I've had it for a couple years now and I still haven't used all the features, like anamorphic and external RAW. So it's literally a camera that technically I could still grow into using if I decided I wanted to use those features down the road.

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

An XT3 would be an excellent choice and something like the XS-20 (under 1k used) would also make a good option.

The only thing that I would warn about those is they can overheat when filming for long times and the X-T3 has recording limits in all modes, from what I remember. I really looked hard at Fuji a few years back; if not for the bad IBIS and the recording limits/overheating it was the system that I honestly thought would have been the perfect, as I really like Fuji colors.

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Actually, a used ‘like new’ LUMIX S9 with all the bits & bobs will just sneak into this budget and would double very well as an EDC non-pro looking camera.

It's still over $1,000 here in the States. I've been keeping my eye on the used prices because I increasingly want one haha!

[MrSMW]

9 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

It's still over $1,000 here in the States. I've been keeping my eye on the used prices because I increasingly want one haha!

Possibly very slightly over budget then…

How much are used Sony FX30’s?

Pair one of those with Sigma’s excellent and tiny 18-50mm (27-75 in FF equivalent) f2.8 and that would be a superb pairing.

[ac6000cw]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

Actually, a used ‘like new’ LUMIX S9 with all the bits & bobs will just sneak into this budget and would double very well as an EDC non-pro looking camera.

I bought the S9 + 18-40mm kit as a 'used - like new' deal recently in the UK for about £1100 (including 20% sales tax). With the recent price reductions that kit is only £1299 brand new (and only £150 more than the body alone). Quite liking it so far, feels very solid in the hand and the lack of a front grip isn't as much of a problem as I thought it might be. Pretty good value (at the current pricing) for what you get, I think.

[newfoundmass]

51 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

How much are used Sony FX30’s?

Still about $1500!

[MrSMW]

20 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

Still about $1500!

Oh.