Shootout of the 4K flagships - Canon 1D C versus Samsung NX1

[Sekhar]

There is 1.03 for both the S lenses.

Thanks Marco, looks like it isn't online yet (at least where I am in US). Neither the Samsung site nor the download setup on the camera shows it. I do see it at http://matteverglade.com/lenses/nx-firmware/ but would rather not download from a non-Samsung site. Samsung support says there is no 1.03 update (but then they never seem to know anything). Where did you find it? 

On a different note, could you post the video you shot (the one that came out super steady)? In what way is the AF better? Hope it's not hunting anymore, that has been the biggest annoyance for me in AF (does it even when there is no movement in the scene).

[Marco Tecno]

I've been using this resource for nx fw, for a long time:

http://samsungnx.herokuapp.com

 

It downloads directly from samsung servers, nothing is stored there locally.

 

As to the video, I'll try to post a fraction of it. Unfortunately I have limited band so I cannot post big clips :'( 

 

The af is much better for stills (snappier, even in low lightlight and finally it never focuses on the background instead of the subject) and it hunts lessless during video.

[Sekhar]

Thanks, turns out the update comes up if you use the Samsung iLauncher, go figure. FYI for others interested.

In any case, Samsung's sites seem like a mess. There's samsung.com, samsungimging.com, samsungimaging.net, samsungcamera.com, etc. samsung.com doesn't have firmware updates, but samsungimaging.com that does have them simply forwards to samsung.com. And samsungcamera.com has breaking news that NX1 firmware update 1.3 is now available!

[kidzrevil]

Okay I have to chime in here on the NX1 sharpness that everyone is harping on. Sharpness is not an issue unless it's creating visual artifacts like moire. Like adding sharpening, you can blur the image to your hearts content in most modern editors. Also you can use diffusion and filters to get the look you want. I would rather have the sharp image and reduce it than have to artificially sharpen an image. 

I don't think the NX1 sharpness is an issue but I DO prefer a softer look. I am thinking of using a tiffen black diffusion fx or something that doesn't flare like a pro mist to soften high frequency details for better compression minus the flare that can cause banding on the 8 bit codec

Refresh my memory: acutance is local contrast, yes? (I'd look at the link, but it isn't playing nice with my phone)
I think people are misreading the term "soft." The people in favor of "soft 4K" are saying they want 4K of resolution with no local contrast/detail enhancement processing applied, so that they get the extra detail without making it feel harsh. The people against "soft 4K" are saying that if you're paying for 3840x2160 resolution, you should get that and not the blurry mess of the rebels/5D. 

Both of you want the same thing: lots of detail. But just because the detail is more prominent/emphasized by the processing doesn't mean there's more of it.  In fact, adding sharpening can actually obscure smaller details. 

So if the manufacturers are giving us a beefy enough file, they should turn sharpening (detail enhancement) off. That way, the people who want "softer" footage with lots of detail can keep it that way, and the people who want "sharper" footage can sharpen to their heart's desire in their NLE of choice. 

Savvy? 

another thing they can totally get rid of for me is the noise reduction on the NX1 ! Some of my shots are either being altered by my transcoding app or there is some type of noise reduction bringing a weird smoothening to my image. Overall I love the NX1's look and I will try to tame the sharpening with some good ol' diffusion filters

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I don't think the NX1 sharpness is an issue but I DO prefer a softer look. I am thinking of using a tiffen black diffusion fx or something that doesn't flare like a pro mist to soften high frequency details for better compression minus the flare that can cause banding on the 8 bit codec

another thing they can totally get rid of for me is the noise reduction on the NX1 ! Some of my shots are either being altered by my transcoding app or there is some type of noise reduction bringing a weird smoothening to my image. Overall I love the NX1's look and I will try to tame the sharpening with some good ol' diffusion filters

You might also try using an external recorder. Some of that "noise reduction" is just smearing from the H.265 compression. It might be contributing to the crunchy-looking detail as well. Bypassing the internal codec altogether and recording 4K Prores from the uncompressed HDMI might solve a lot of your image issues, and provide an easier workflow to boot.

[kidzrevil]

I think a lot of us are forgetting that color is subjective...and as hobbyist we shoot to capture beautiful imagery, as artists we shoot to capture beautiful imagery and as professionals we get paid to shoot beautiful imagery. Unless you have a career or general interest in charts and color swatches then you gotta understand each camera has its strengths and weaknesses. They are just tools, pick the one that works for you. But...im preaching to the choir :-D

You might also try using an external recorder. Some of that "noise reduction" is just smearing from the H.265 compression. It might be contributing to the crunchy-looking detail as well. Bypassing the internal codec altogether and recording 4K Prores from the uncompressed HDMI might solve a lot of your image issues, and provide an easier workflow to boot.

I've heard of people shooting externally and getting the same look. Its not the codec its the signal processing. The smearing we see is unlike noise reduction, thats just sounds like bad transcoding. Also its been proven since the GH2 that the less detail the camera has to compress its use of the bitrate becomes more efficient. I've shot with a bunch of cameras and this has always been the end result when shooting with a diffuser :-)