Sony A7R II official user thread

[Gregormannschaft]

From the tests it seems the A7R II is the best of A7R + A7S, so they either make the A7S II the ultimate camera you will ever need or it seems useless!!! 

Again, I'd wager they add even more video features like a range of slow motion options.

 

Would someone check if there's any flex in the lens mount, please?

This video posted recently at Vimeo shows an A7s (supposedly the most solid of the first generation A7 series)

with disturbing amount of play:

Interesting. Recently my metabones adapter has started to rotate just ever so slightly when mounted with a 24-105mm lens, quite a big lens for the A7s. There's no up or down play, but perhaps some A7s mounts are weakening over time. 

[Marco Tecno]

NX1 destroyed...

I didn't see a comparative test to say so. Anyway it won't be that surprising, given the price difference. At about 2.5x the price, it should be a (much) better camera in every aspect. Is it? Dunno. Certainly not for sport photography.

 

And when you account lenses in the whole, you have to spend much, much more. Nx1 actually seems a bargain now.

[sandro]

I didn't see a comparative test to say so. Anyway it won't be that surprising, given the price difference. At about 2.5x the price, it should be a (much) better camera in every aspect. Is it? Dunno. Certainly not for sport photography.

 

And when you account lenses in the whole, you have to spend much, much more. Nx1 actually seems a bargain now.

What I'm not satisfied about the NX1 is the low light capabilities. It seems much worse than my old 550D.

[Julian]

From the tests it seems the A7R II is the best of A7R + A7S, so they either make the A7S II the ultimate camera you will ever need or it seems useless!!! 

The A7R II seems to be very good in low light in the 18MP S35 crop mode (4K), in fullframe mode the A7S still wins.

I think Sony should give the A7S II a 18MP fullframe bsi-sensor - so you'd get better low light performance in 4K full frame mode.
The lower megapixel count could also make faster readout possible for 4K @ 60 fps, 1080p@120 fps and maybe 720p@240 fps.

Actually I think Sony should make the A7S II not exclusively a lowlight video-oriented camera, but a Sports photography camera with a huge buffer and fast framerate - at least 10 fps. So it can compete with the Nikon D4S / Canon 1D X (and Samsung NX1, although the buffer in the NX1 isn't really impressive compared to the pro sports cams).

[Clayton Moore]

What this camera proves again is that high quality images have for the most part become ubiquitous.  Thats great because as excitement and interest in the cameras themselves gives way to the content they create, the interest  in the content itself will grow and thats good for the future of content creators.   Yea!!!

[horshack]

 

In the end i decided not to include the 1080 samples because they're quite bad, way worse then the both the 4K modes so it's definitely better to downscale when a 1080 output is required.

This is surprising. By quite bad did you mean detail or noise? Did you see the poor results in both FF and Super 35mm modes for 1080?

NX1 destroyed...

Unless you like to use full-time AF for video. I doubt the A7rII will match the NX1 in this regard:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DigAgYD-QY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=znoDaqWLt9E

[Amro Othman]

I think to differentiate A7S2 they will put easy things like slog3 or 10bit.

but clean FHD at 480 fps impossible

even clean 120fps is gonna be hard... 

Internal 4k at 60fps ? With heating issues in 30fps already ? I doubt a lot. 

 

We have clean FHD at 120 and 240 FPS already with RX10 and RX100 IV don't we? And those cameras are $800 - $1400. If you are paying double that for a7sII I don't think its unrealistic to expect solid HFR

[Andrew Reid]

The A7R II seems to be very good in low light in the 18MP S35 crop mode (4K), in fullframe mode the A7S still wins.

I think Sony should give the A7S II a 18MP fullframe bsi-sensor - so you'd get better low light performance in 4K full frame mode.
The lower megapixel count could also make faster readout possible for 4K @ 60 fps, 1080p@120 fps and maybe 720p@240 fps.

Actually I think Sony should make the A7S II not exclusively a lowlight video-oriented camera, but a Sports photography camera with a huge buffer and fast framerate - at least 10 fps. So it can compete with the Nikon D4S / Canon 1D X (and Samsung NX1, although the buffer in the NX1 isn't really impressive compared to the pro sports cams).

That would be an interesting direction to take the A7S II.

I am sure it would be able to do an 18MP full pixel readout if it inherited the sensor architecture of the RX100 IV's 1" sensor and scaled it up to full frame with better cooling, heat sink, larger body. Therefore you'd have 30fps continuous shooting as a sports stills cam.

Buffer memory is one of the most expensive parts of a camera and they always limit the size. However with CFast 2.0 cards you'd be able to write 18MP raw directly to the card continuously at 30fps. In theory 4K raw video would also be possible.

The aim of speed kinda clashes a bit with sensitivity though... fast sensors are noisier because they generate more heat.

So Sony may choose to limit the speed and extend ISO instead.

Personally I'd call for a balance.

I don't really need 4 million ISO that often

You can count on better AF being part of the A7S II. Already on the A7 II and especially the A7R II it is massively improved.

In terms of the A7S II I am expecting an evolution not a revolution but part of me prefers the NX1's body as a mirrorless camera that handles more like a flagship DSLR. I find Sony's ergonomics much improved over the NEX days but they are still too cramped and fiddly. Also please give us a reorganised menu system and a better function / favourites menu. I want to be able to have 4k / 1080p file format on the favourites menu like on my 1D C for quick access.

[Julian]

@Andrew Reid

"fast sensors are noisier because they generate more heat"

Is that really the case? The D4S and 1D X sensor aren't more noisier than their 'slower' counterparts. Also the new 42MP bsi sensor is a lot faster than it's predecessor and I don't think it's noisier?

Buffer memory is expensive, but the camera won't be cheap anyway. The A7S is more expensive than the A7R, if Sony decides to make the A7S II a big upgrade, I wouldn't be surprised if it was more expensive than the A7R II.

30 fps is possible read out-wise, but you'd have to use an electronic shutter. If it's still a rolling shutter (which I would expect), that would probably not be very good for sports photography. A mechanical shutter with 30 fps is impossible I think.

I agree on the ergonomics. The A7(R) II is a lot nicer compared to the first generation, but they should really make that rumoured A9 Pro-series with a bigger body, bigger battery, proper flipscreen etc.

 

[AaronChicago]

Also please give us a reorganised menu system and a better function / favourites menu. I want to be able to have 4k / 1080p file format on the favourites menu like on my 1D C for quick access.

Amen. Sony menus are a joke.

[Oliver Daniel]

Amen. Sony menus are a joke.

This is one of the main reasons I'm steering towards a camera I haven't used before (URSA Mini 4.6k) instead of the FS7 for ownership. I like what I've shot with the FS7, but the menu system is absolutely terrible. I get a lump in my brain every time I need to change some settings. 

I'm not going to splash on the A7RII. Happy shooting to all of you who do  

[Clayton Moore]

This is one of the main reasons I'm steering towards a camera I haven't used before (URSA Mini 4.6k) instead of the FS7 for ownership. I like what I've shot with the FS7, but the menu system is absolutely terrible. I get a lump in my brain every time I need to change some settings. 

I'm not going to splash on the A7RII. Happy shooting to all of you who do  

Got my hands on an URSA mini sporting a ZEISS cinema lens, it was really nice!!!   

[Oliver Daniel]

Got my hands on an URSA mini sporting a ZEISS cinema lens, it was really nice!!!   

What are your (very) early impressions? (of the URSA Mini that is). 

And so this doesn't steer off topic, are you getting an A7R II? 

[AaronChicago]

Got my hands on an URSA mini sporting a ZEISS cinema lens, it was really nice!!!   

nice. Did you shoot anything with it or was it a product demo?

[BrorSvensson]

 

Again, I'd wager they add even more video features like a range of slow motion options.

 

Interesting. Recently my metabones adapter has started to rotate just ever so slightly when mounted with a 24-105mm lens, quite a big lens for the A7s. There's no up or down play, but perhaps some A7s mounts are weakening over time. 

 

 

I would highly recommend the Fotodiox "Though E mount" it fixes all the issues with play and wobble

[labirdman]

Davide,

What makes you think it doesn't drop to 12-bit precision in fully electronic ("silent") shutter mode?  All indications are that it does so, just like the other A7 series cameras that support this feature (there's no penalty with EFCS, naturally.)

In fact, someone even posted a snippet from an A7RII manual a few weeks ago confirming this limitation.

Bulb, continuous, and  continuous bracket modes also drop to 12-bit precision.  

So for top quality super long exposure shots exceeding 30 seconds, where you must use bulb, you get 12-bit.  That stinks, in a $3200 camera.

Coupled with the fact that they're still using the somewhat crappy lossy RAW compression scheme, which does occasionally manifest itself in real-world shots, and this one's a skip, for me, for now.  It seems Nikon is still the best when it comes to getting top quality out of Sony's sensors.

But then, I'm primarily a stills guy--video is a bonus.  

I've also shot some stills yesterday and I'm quite shocked by the insane amount of detail (and latitude) you get.. put that together with the ability to use a fully electronic shutter (that apparently for the first time ever has no penalties in terms of bit depth but i'm definitely gonna test that) and you get a timelapse dream camera. Let me know if you're interested in having a look at the RAW files and will upload some of them!

 

[Sekhar]

NX1 destroyed...

Not sure why you say that. Sure, it is FF. But NX1 has pluses of its own: e.g., 120 fps in 1080p and true 4k (vs. UHD). At the end of the day, both are 8 bit 4:2:0 internal, so I'm not sure what the headline feature is for A7RII that should get everyone excited over above NX1. Against A7S, it'll be internal 4K; but against NX1, what? Comes down to FF, right? IMO, we need to learn a lot more about its performance and see real world results before passing judgment vs. other cameras. For one thing, I thought the colors are muddy in all the test footage I saw from A7RII so far.

[Gregormannschaft]

I would highly recommend the Fotodiox "Though E mount" it fixes all the issues with play and wobble

Cheers! Although getting fiddly with cameras never ceases to scare the shit out of me. With other smaller lenses there is no play so I'm not worried about it too much yet but will keep it in mind for the future.

[Liam]

Not sure why you say that. Sure, it is FF. But NX1 has pluses of its own: e.g., 120 fps in 1080p and true 4k (vs. UHD). At the end of the day, both are 8 bit 4:2:0 internal, so I'm not sure what the headline feature is for A7RII that should get everyone excited over above NX1. Against A7S, it'll be internal 4K; but against NX1, what? Comes down to FF, right? IMO, we need to learn a lot more about its performance and see real world results before passing judgment vs. other cameras. For one thing, I thought the colors are muddy in all the test footage I saw from A7RII so far.

 FF, log, dynamic range, codec, low light, rolling shutter, IBIS, lenses. Also the DCI in the nx1 is cropped from UHD right? but I agree that the nx1 isn't dead

[Sekhar]

 FF, log, dynamic range, codec, low light, rolling shutter, IBIS, lenses. Also the DCI in the nx1 is cropped from UHD right? but I agree that the nx1 isn't dead

My point is: except for FF, it's not a slam dunk. Log on 8 bit 4:2:0 isn't exactly great, IMO colors are muddy because of it. This is even assuming NX1 won't get log itself soon. Low light is great for candle light test shots, but does anyone ever do any serious project, especially narrative work, based on low light capabilities rather than light the scene? For doc folks, would be good though. I don't know what you mean by codec, H.265 is an extremely efficient codec that makes great use of the bandwidth, perhaps you're talking about the need to transcode to ProRes? You'll need to do that with a7RII as well. Rolling shutter is just as bad on crop mode, if not worse, as I understand. IBIS and lenses would be a (possibly big) advantage if you use other lenses, but otherwise lens stabilization works quite well with Samsung lenses (though I don't know how it compares to the IBIS in a7RII). And don't forget that NX1 costs less than half of a7RII, which should be mentioned when you list the pluses.

Bottom line, we can enumerate all the things on one side to make the advantages seem big, but as I see it, the only headline plus I see is the FF aspect, but as I said the colors on the other hand seem muddy compared to the vibrant colors of NX1, which for me trumps FF. Of course, I'm only seeing the test clips posted, and that's why I said we need to see more before judging.