Canon profits down 16% as demand for old-style DSLRs continues to slide

[Mattias Burling]

But if hybrid video is driving these stocks as you seem to think, then where are the camera division numbers in these quarterly reports?

And also, where are all the hybrid cameras?

[Sekhar]

But if hybrid video is driving these stocks as you seem to think, then where are the camera division numbers in these quarterly reports?

Who said hybrid video is driving the stocks??? We have no idea what's driving it, that was the point!!! My beef was that you can't on one hand say you need all the facts before coming to a conclusion and then make an assertion like "Hybrid video is not driving these stocks" because you wouldn't know that either without all the facts. Your conclusion is flawed. Saying "you can't say X is false" does not mean "I believe X is true."

[eleison]

How long before the layoffs??????  I think canon profits have been going in the toilet for the past 2 years.  I say, one more year of bad earnings before layoffs.  The 5d4 will not save them.  Their investment in the alarm company Axis will not save them..  Dslr for imaging is dead.  Just like sony, Canon needs to be burned down to rise again...  The canon board of directors if they are smart, needs to get rid of the current upper management (aka, "the clowns").... and quickly.

[Mervyn]

Don't forget Nikon and Blackmagic. And unpopular opinion: I think Panasonic and Samsung have the best color science in the game right now. We're all just so used to the Canon look that we've adopted it as the gospel truth of camera color. 

You're absolutely right, Nikon and Blackmagic too. Nikon supposedly is a tad cooler and Canon a bit warmer but that's easy to adjust in post. I looked at some comparison photo's of Nikon and Canon colors and I didn't see that much of a difference. I always liked Nikon camera's better then Canon camera's, but that's just because my very first camera was a Nikon.

I owned both the Panasonic GH3 and GH4. I wasn't very impressed with the color of the GH3, but they definitely made great improvements with the GH4.

Did you read Andrews comparison of his 1D C and the Samsung? I'd prefer the subtleties of the Canon instead of the more saturated (and green) look of the Samsung. I don't own either though, so I wouldn't know how bad the difference really is.

[Mervyn]

Ming Thein's been doing some great stuff with it. http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/07/02/canon-5dsr-review-part-1/

Well written and critical review, thanks!

I visited a Fuji day at my local camera store this summer and one of the people working there told us that they were afraid they would get a lot of returned 5DS's because most people wouldn't be able to shoot with it. It's a bit like a medium format camera in a full frame body. Thus it requires a medium format workflow, which is slower and requires more patience. Something that most unknowing consumers lack.

I think I read on this forum that the 5DS is basically four of their older APS-C sensors stitched together. In that case it doesn't have the level of technology that the latest Sony sensors have. It just has smaller pixels. Which would theoretically mean it has more noise and is less sensitive to light. And dynamic range likely hasn't improved by much either. If it's true it sounds like a lame way to create a new camera. Sure, more megapixels can be nice, but in reality hardly anyone actually needs those. I see it more as a handicap then as a benefit. Also because I'm mostly interested in people, so not much need for more pixels. So instead of this I'd rather have the 5D III... which incidentally also has better video.

If I were a landscape shooter (photography) I might give the 5DS a chance. It likely has better color then a Sony or even Nikon.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

My opinion on why Canon DSLR division is dropping compared to the 2002-2010 era, in order of significance in effect:

1- During these high profit years, they've already gathered most of the new-buyer market in the world, now the number of people buying a new SLR for the first time shrunk significantly and is exclusive to young people under 13-ish, not all people under 80 as it was during 2008-ish.

2- Those massive amount of Canon DSLRs owners have been finding it hard to upgrade their cameras. A Canon 2009 550D owner doesn't want to upgrade to a 700D, a 2010 60D owner to 70D, a 5DII 2008 owner to 5DIII, it's just because the innovation and new market-catching groundbreaking features that are presented in a new upgrade is something Canon lacked for long as they've been on the ''evolutionary'' camera-making track, not the market-catchy ''revolutionary track'' (like Sony/Panasonic are doing with every new upgrade, there's a catchy spec that makes you feel you WANT to upgrade.

3- Canon sensor performance had been heavily criticized all over the world in having a low shadow DR compared to Sony/Nikon sensors. This hurt the company sales and reputation in a much more than expected way. 

4- Canon loss of the low-budget (under 6000$) film-making market altogether from 2012 to 2015. Total 100% loss. They stopped making good video shooting cameras for that market. And that it itself, lead all film-making/video oriented communities criticize Canon as a whole brand fiercely, and that made a huge impact on Canon reputation even in the photography world. 

For Canon to regain success and get an up-curve in profits they need to address these.

1- Make their cameras most appealing for the new buyer. This by outperforming the competition in certain elements that are important for entry level shooters.

2- Start introducing ''ground-breaking'' specs in their camera releases to push people to upgrade, the things that give ''innovation'' impression to the media & buyer (4K on their Rebel up to 1D line, Very high MP, high Burst rates, high DR with Dual read-outs, Dual Pixel AF on steroids, you know things that get a wow effect)

3- Fix the shadow DR issue they seem to have as in their RAW stills files cannot be pushed up in exposure as much as Sony/Nikon sensor. This is very, very hurtful for Canon nowadays (even if you or I believe it's ridiculous to be that hurtful, it is)

4- Regain the budget filmmaking market, it's very big (look at GH4/A7s sales). By introducing high resolution fixing their biggest failure in all their line up from rebels to 1D, giving DPAF with touchscreens to all their line, Canon LOG and S35/S16 and crop modes for video on all their line, even start a new budget cinema glass for EF-S lenses rehoused (10-18mm STM, 18-55 STM, 50mm STM, 55-250mm STM, 24mm/28mm STM, 35mm IS), give them cinema focus rings and sell them at low prices.

This way a Rebel or a 5D with high resolution/4K, DPAF with touh screen, C-Log gamma and colour science and s35/s16 crop modes, cheap EF-S cinema glass line, they would be on the top of the filmmaking chain.

Which will promote and help sell their high end camcorder line as well not the other way around. That Rebel/5D will NOT replace a full fledged Cx00 camera with XLRs, NDs, 15 buttons, 5 hour battery, Internal Audio, huge screen and EVF, 15 stops of Dynamic range, Raw, 120p, PL mounts, Magnesium unbreakable body, Dual/triple media slots, Top handle, Removable grip, removable LCD, Wifi Live view and operation, HD-SDI, timecode, Genlock, Full lockable HDMI ports, 4K HDMI/SDI outputs, the list goes on and on and on, the smaller line will merely support them as smaller B cameras and sell more of both (Like what Sony is doing with selling A7s/A7rII/RX10 as B cameras for their FS7/F5/F55 cameras.

[Damphousse]

Well, you can say "it's not that simple," and be right in almost any discussion of merit. Sure, we need all the facts before jumping to conclusions, but then you can't make statements like "Hybrid video is not driving these stocks" either.

Yes, we can.  If hybrid video was driving the stock it would have been mentioned in the myriad of articles in the financial press.  The turnarounds at Panasonic and Sony are a BIG story.  Wall St is loving what is going on at Panasonic in particular.  Trust me if this was mostly about mirrorless 4k we would have heard about it.

Now none of that is to say I don't like what the video departments at those firms are doing.  There are plenty of reasons to like those divisions.  Just let's not embellish and say that's what is moving the stock price.  I can respect what I think Canon is doing from a business point of view and still buy cameras for video from other manufactures.  It's not personal... just business.  Canon is in a tough spot.  They don't have a game system nor an automotive department.  If they want to protect their margins on pro gear that is their business decision, but I don't have to buy another Rebel.  I bought a BMPCC a year ago and there is probably going to be an LX100, G7, or RX10 II in my future... or maybe I stick with Blackmagic.  But no Canon for video for me.

[gelaxstudio]

For Canon to regain success and get an up-curve in profits they need to address these.

3- Fix the shadow DR issue they seem to have as in their RAW stills files cannot be pushed up in exposure as much as Sony/Nikon sensor. This is very, very hurtful for Canon nowadays (even if you or I believe it's ridiculous to be that hurtful, it is)

Canon earned a lot more profits than sony in the past 5 years.

BUT they did not invest  most of they profit into solving their sensor problem ,updating their production line .Their tech remain stagnant since 2008.

Unlike canon，sony despite its huge financial loss and spend billion of dollars into making the world best  camera sensor and pushing the camera innovation 

And don't forget sony is not a company that making and selling cameras for primary profit，which unlike canon and nikon ！

So why canon is losing？

That is WHY！

Ming Thein's been doing some great stuff with it. http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/07/02/canon-5dsr-review-part-1

Just check the reviews on DXOmark and DPreview，then u will realize 5DS isn't nicer than the D810 and A7R，and it is overpriced too 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

 

Just check the reviews on DXOmark and DPreview，then u will realize 5DS isn't nicer than the D810 and A7R，and it is overpriced too 

I didn't say it was better than anything. I referred to a review by a seasoned professional who finds the 5DS to be a useful tool in his work. Value and quality should always be evaluated based on the needs and preferences of the user, not just test chart data.