Looking for a 120FPS camera with a decent sensor

[Shield3]

Just like to shoot occasional slow mo - 120FPS @ 1080p would be great.  The cheaper the better.    I don't shoot slow-mo very often.  Going to research things like the LX100 now...stuff like that.  Under $1000 for sure as that's all it's going to do for me.  Flip out screen would be amazing too.

[aldolega]

Look at the new Sony RX100IV or RX10II. $1000 and $1300. Both do 1080p120 at the same quality as normal speeds, and even go higher, up to 960fps, but with image compromises.

[vaga]

The only other camera I know of to do 1080@120fps cheap(ish) is the NX1 - $1300 new (not including lens). 

[ricardo_sousa11]

NX1 is your best choice, 4k 30fps, 1080p @ 120fps with great quality ! This was one of the reasons I got mine, though havent tested it yet.

[Liam]

Nx1 and rx10ii are over a thousand dollars. rx100iv is just under a thousand and does aliasing/moire free 120fps (unlike the nx1) -also with more detail than the nx1. At least that's my understanding. That has to be the cheapest camera for 1080p 120fps and with quality better than much more expensive cameras. Nx1 has a larger sensor though and interchangeable lenses and maybe you'd like those colors more. But for your specifications, rx100iv is the option.

[ricardo_sousa11]

Nx1 and rx10ii are over a thousand dollars. rx100iv is just under a thousand and does aliasing/moire free 120fps (unlike the nx1) -also with more detail than the nx1. At least that's my understanding. That has to be the cheapest camera for 1080p 120fps and with quality better than much more expensive cameras. Nx1 has a larger sensor though and interchangeable lenses and maybe you'd like those colors more. But for your specifications, rx100iv is the option.

Where did you see any comparison between sharpness on the rx100iv vs Nx1 ?  I would actually love to see those two together and see how they compare, I may be needing a B camera soon, and would like to know if they could do better tha nx500.

[Liam]

Well I've seen aliasing and moire on the soft, line skipping/binning/whatever 120fps of the nx1 a bit, and in compasion to the gh4's and a7s's lackluster slow mo options. Andrew has said detail from the rx10ii in 120fps is identical to the a7s's crisp 24fps in 1080p, and showed a few crops. It's a full sensor readout still in that mode, downscaled to 1080p. Maybe it's a little bit just hearsay and based on specs, but I'm pretty confident it's a step or two above the nx1's 120fps (which still looks pretty nice)

[sanveer]

Just like to shoot occasional slow mo - 120FPS @ 1080p would be great.  The cheaper the better.    I don't shoot slow-mo very often.  Going to research things like the LX100 now...stuff like that.  Under $1000 for sure as that's all it's going to do for me.  Flip out screen would be amazing too.

I don't know about anyone else, but for me the 5 Minute time limit per shot on the RX100 iv is a Huge Deal. It seems to cripple thing as a video camera almost completely. 5 minutes??? Forget interviews or Documentaries, 5 minutes is too short for almost anything IMHO. 

[IronFilm]

If you can settle for only 720, then the nice Samsung NX500 is going for a very cheap $344

[Andrew Reid]

RX100 MK IV / RX10 II are best for this, hands down. Forget the interchangeable lens mount options if you need a sharp image & moire free.

If you can settle for only 720, then the nice Samsung NX500 is going for a very cheap $344

That's a good budget choice. Way off the RX100 IV for quality but not so far off NX1's 1080/120fps, which looks like upscaled 720p anyway.

[Liam]

I don't know about anyone else, but for me the 5 Minute time limit per shot on the RX100 iv is a Huge Deal. It seems to cripple thing as a video camera almost completely. 5 minutes??? Forget interviews or Documentaries, 5 minutes is too short for almost anything IMHO. 

is it 5 minutes for 120/1080p too? I thought that was just for 4k. Either way, might not need 5 minutes' worth of 120fps at 25% speed...

If it's only for slow mo stuff, but you have to option of a little 4k if you want, winwin

[ricardo_sousa11]

RX100 MK IV / RX10 II are best for this, hands down. Forget the interchangeable lens mount options if you need a sharp image & moire free.

That's a good budget choice. Way off the RX100 IV for quality but not so far off NX1's 1080/120fps, which looks like upscaled 720p anyway.

Andrew, could you do a comparison between RX100 MKIV/RX 10II and Nx1 ? It seems that would be a great article

[Marco Tecno]

I asked for the same thing several days ago. I'd like to see some stills pulled from videos for both the cameras, in different situations (bright light, lower light, moire inclined subjects and so on).

[Window_Frame]

NX500 does 120fps @ 720p.

[Shield3]

The only other camera I know of to do 1080@120fps cheap(ish) is the NX1 - $1300 new (not including lens). 

After staying up half the night (and working 13 hours yesterday) I ended up getting a used NX1 + grip + 16-50 F/2-2.8.

I love my 1dc, but this will be more for casual shooting.  It does things the 1dc doesn't, like:

Built in EVF / touch screen / 120FPS @ 1080p / AF in video mode - even high speed AF!  The gh4 doesn't even do that.  My wallet wishes I'd never have watched this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DigAgYD-QY

While on paper the Sony looks amazing - I pulled down a few videos for both this and the RX10 II - I just didn't care for the image on the Sony.  With the small sensor it just looks to camcorder-like.  Yes, I know you can get close to the subject and zoom out and get nice shallow DOF - but look at that video I just posted - that's @ 45mm.  I think the REC 709 coming out of the NX1 will be just fine - I'll dial down the contrast/saturation a bit.  It will be a pain transcoding the h265, but that's why we have beefy machines, right?

Nx1 and rx10ii are over a thousand dollars. rx100iv is just under a thousand and does aliasing/moire free 120fps (unlike the nx1) -also with more detail than the nx1. At least that's my understanding. That has to be the cheapest camera for 1080p 120fps and with quality better than much more expensive cameras. Nx1 has a larger sensor though and interchangeable lenses and maybe you'd like those colors more. But for your specifications, rx100iv is the option.

I love how small the Rx100 IV is, but the overheating reports scare me.  My original RX100 would overheat and shut off during baseball games.  So did my NEX-5n and many other Sonys.  While it's true for flat out detail and sharpness the new RX models are probably the best, I much prefer the look of the larger sensor NX1 so that's what I bought.

RX100 MK IV / RX10 II are best for this, hands down. Forget the interchangeable lens mount options if you need a sharp image & moire free.

That's a good budget choice. Way off the RX100 IV for quality but not so far off NX1's 1080/120fps, which looks like upscaled 720p anyway.

I think the 1080p/120 from the NX1 looks pretty damn fantastic.  Plus it will hold the AF.  Think about that.  I shoot my son playing travel baseball - now I can shoot slo-mo him hitting and running through all the bases - that's far too tough to pull focus on with any sort of shallow DOF with the 1dc.  This 1080p120 looks far better than the 1080p60 I'm getting from the 1dc.  You know that as well as I do.  Don't know about you Andrew, but all the sample videos I've seen from the 1" sensor'd new Sonys look like camcorder footage.  I don't want anything that sharp at 4k.

[Mattias Burling]

After staying up half the night (and working 13 hours yesterday) I ended up getting a used NX1 + grip + 16-50 F/2-2.8.

I love my 1dc, but this will be more for casual shooting.  It does things the 1dc doesn't, like:

Built in EVF / touch screen / 120FPS @ 1080p / AF in video mode - even high speed AF!  The gh4 doesn't even do that.  My wallet wishes I'd never have watched this video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DigAgYD-QY

While on paper the Sony looks amazing - I pulled down a few videos for both this and the RX10 II - I just didn't care for the image on the Sony.  With the small sensor it just looks to camcorder-like.  Yes, I know you can get close to the subject and zoom out and get nice shallow DOF - but look at that video I just posted - that's @ 45mm.  I think the REC 709 coming out of the NX1 will be just fine - I'll dial down the contrast/saturation a bit.  It will be a pain transcoding the h265, but that's why we have beefy machines, right?

I love how small the Rx100 IV is, but the overheating reports scare me.  My original RX100 would overheat and shut off during baseball games.  So did my NEX-5n and many other Sonys.  While it's true for flat out detail and sharpness the new RX models are probably the best, I much prefer the look of the larger sensor NX1 so that's what I bought.

I think the 1080p/120 from the NX1 looks pretty damn fantastic.  Plus it will hold the AF.  Think about that.  I shoot my son playing travel baseball - now I can shoot slo-mo him hitting and running through all the bases - that's far too tough to pull focus on with any sort of shallow DOF with the 1dc.  This 1080p120 looks far better than the 1080p60 I'm getting from the 1dc.  You know that as well as I do.  Don't know about you Andrew, but all the sample videos I've seen from the 1" sensor'd new Sonys look like camcorder footage.  I don't want anything that sharp at 4k.

Where did you buy it? How much?

[Shield3]

Where did you buy it? How much?

Used on ebay.  NX1 + grip + 2nd batt + S 1650 2-2.8 lens for $1970 shipped.

 

[Andrew Reid]

While on paper the Sony looks amazing - I pulled down a few videos for both this and the RX10 II - I just didn't care for the image on the Sony.  With the small sensor it just looks to camcorder-like.  Yes, I know you can get close to the subject and zoom out and get nice shallow DOF - but look at that video I just posted - that's @ 45mm.  I think the REC 709 coming out of the NX1 will be just fine - I'll dial down the contrast/saturation a bit.  It will be a pain transcoding the h265, but that's why we have beefy machines, right?

Congrats on the NX1. Great camera. That F2 zoom is good too.

Get EditReady for $50 and it is pretty painless.

I love how small the Rx100 IV is, but the overheating reports scare me.  My original RX100 would overheat and shut off during baseball games.  So did my NEX-5n and many other Sonys.  While it's true for flat out detail and sharpness the new RX models are probably the best, I much prefer the look of the larger sensor NX1 so that's what I bought.

RX100 IV overheating mainly in 4K on long shoots, not a problem in the 1080/120fps/240fps modes so far for me.

I have used the RX100 IV as a 1080p camera more than a 4K one. It has the best 1080p of anything I've ever used. Like an FS7 but smaller sensor and 1/8th the price.

Yes that 1" sensor does give you a bit of a flat image at times but S-LOG helps make it look cinematic if you're good at grading. Really helps get rid of the 'video' look to highlights, better dynamic range, smoother roll off, etc. Digital Bolex also has a Super 16mm sensor but it looks cinematic as hell because of the colour, grain, texture, so it is not all about shallow DOF and you have your 1D C for that anyway

I think the 1080p/120 from the NX1 looks pretty damn fantastic.  Plus it will hold the AF.  Think about that.  I shoot my son playing travel baseball - now I can shoot slo-mo him hitting and running through all the bases - that's far too tough to pull focus on with any sort of shallow DOF with the 1dc.  This 1080p120 looks far better than the 1080p60 I'm getting from the 1dc.  You know that as well as I do.  Don't know about you Andrew, but all the sample videos I've seen from the 1" sensor'd new Sonys look like camcorder footage.  I don't want anything that sharp at 4k.

My footage from the RX10 II and RX100 IV is coming soon... it doesn't look like camcorder footage!

I'll be interested to see how you get on with AF on the NX1. It is occasionally magic but mostly unreliable and doesn't do what you expect given the specs. Same with the RX10 II and RX100 IV though, continuous AF is really quite terrible in movie mode and HFR, but not as disastrous as it would be on a larger sensor like Super 35mm.... so approach with caution I'd say.

[Jimmy]

I also think the 120fps from NX1 is pretty amazing. Maybe it is a glass thing? I've been using the f2.0 zoom and it seems to have alot of detail in 120fps mode... Way better than, say, 1080p from a 5DIII

Here is a frame grab from a 120fps shot... Yea, it is a a bit over sharpened, in camera, but you can see there is plenty of actual resolution too (this is a framegrab from the initial video, no post... banding is horrible)

 

 

[Shield3]

Congrats on the NX1. Great camera. That F2 zoom is good too.

Get EditReady for $50 and it is pretty painless.

RX100 IV overheating mainly in 4K on long shoots, not a problem in the 1080/120fps/240fps modes so far for me.

I have used the RX100 IV as a 1080p camera more than a 4K one. It has the best 1080p of anything I've ever used. Like an FS7 but smaller sensor and 1/8th the price.

Yes that 1" sensor does give you a bit of a flat image at times but S-LOG helps make it look cinematic if you're good at grading. Really helps get rid of the 'video' look to highlights, better dynamic range, smoother roll off, etc. Digital Bolex also has a Super 16mm sensor but it looks cinematic as hell because of the colour, grain, texture, so it is not all about shallow DOF and you have your 1D C for that anyway

My footage from the RX10 II and RX100 IV is coming soon... it doesn't look like camcorder footage!

I'll be interested to see how you get on with AF on the NX1. It is occasionally magic but mostly unreliable and doesn't do what you expect given the specs. Same with the RX10 II and RX100 IV though, continuous AF is really quite terrible in movie mode and HFR, but not as disastrous as it would be on a larger sensor like Super 35mm.... so approach with caution I'd say.

Yeah the NX1 + 16-50 F/2-2.8 will be here Monday.  I will use it for things I either cannot do with the 1dc or just times I want to quickly grab a handheld shot / have AF in video mode.  No, it won't replace the 12FPS AF low light camera beast that is the 1dc.  It's going to be for reach / good light / casual shooting.  I'm hoping Samsung has introduced some newer flat profiles with firmware updates.  I thought this video looked pretty good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEa9ImGqyxo

As always you know there's no 1 perfect camera that:

Does great in low light / Tracks moving subjects well (sports shooter)/ AF is super quick / high burst rate / slow motion (1080p120 or higher) touch screen and AF in video mode / has FF/ 1.3x / s35 crop modes

The 1dc excels in both stills and video (Best stills camera I've ever had -  and really damn good at video)  But it'll never have a flip out screen  / AF in video mode / have a built-in EVF / do really good slow motion / have peaking.  The a7s does many of those but way too slow to shoot sports.  I think the a7r II will help bridge the gap, but I would challenge anyone to join me shooting indoor sports - grab any Sony body and any lens and I'll grab the 1dc+135L and we'll see who gets more keepers..:)

 

Put the 1dc sensor in the 70d with better battery life and high framerates (as well as peaking) and that's pretty much be my dream camera.