A7Sii to be...

[DBounce]

Or not to be, that is the question. With the best of both worlds performance of the new Sony A7Rii, are we certain that Sony with release a Mkii version of the A7S? 

The upgrades needed to make the A7Sii a decidedly better video camera than the A7Rii, would also make it serious competition for the much more expensive FS7. With this in mind the A7Sii's viability come into question.

So those of you holding out for a successor to the A7S might be out of luck. You could be playing the "I'll wait for the next model" game for quite a while.

[Oliver Daniel]

Or not to be, that is the question. With the best of both worlds performance of the new Sony A7Rii, are we certain that Sony with release a Mkii version of the A7S? 

The upgrades needed to make the A7Sii a decidedly better video camera than the A7Rii, would also make it serious competition for the much more expensive FS7. With this in mind the A7Sii's viability come into question.

So those of you holding out for a successor to the A7S might be out of luck. You could be playing the "I'll wait for the next model" game for quite a while.

There's always a next model. 

I would predict there will be an article by Andrew in 6 months time saying "my A7RII is now toast for video", while Samsung also complicate matters with a low-light competitor to the A7SII. Canon get the same old treatment with the new 5D Mk IV. Then Panasonic bring out a GH5. Then... it goes on...and on...

p.s the A7SII should come with 1080p 120fps to appeal over the other models.

[DBounce]

Well this fresh review sums up my thinking pretty well

"Now, if you are in a rush and have no time/patience to read my full Sony A7rIIreview, let me summarise it for you in two sentences:

– Sell your A7s (or any other photo camera that shoots video you currently have)
– Buy the new Sony A7rII ….

Sony’s engineers did a remarkable job getting it right. I can’t remember myself having so much fun shooting and then looking at the footage with any other photo camera that shoot video since starting reviewing those cameras. (I currently own the Sony A7s andCanon EOS 1DC)."

https://***URL not allowed***/sony-a7rii-review-first-impressions-footage/

[Gregormannschaft]

Well this fresh review sums up my thinking pretty well

"Now, if you are in a rush and have no time/patience to read my full Sony A7rIIreview, let me summarise it for you in two sentences:

– Sell your A7s (or any other photo camera that shoots video you currently have)
– Buy the new Sony A7rII ….

Sony’s engineers did a remarkable job getting it right. I can’t remember myself having so much fun shooting and then looking at the footage with any other photo camera that shoot video since starting reviewing those cameras. (I currently own the Sony A7s andCanon EOS 1DC)."

https://***URL not allowed***/sony-a7rii-review-first-impressions-footage/

Ugh, it's quotes like this that annoy me. I love my A7s, but it is tempting. I have a Canon 5D Mark III lying around that I havent used in a year...and my A7s. I could sell both and have about 700 euros to spare and to invest. Hmm.

[elkanah77]

As of now I'd rather hold on to my A7s and my newly aquired RX100IV and have TWO cameras that combined have all I need including a fabulous 1080p 120 fps. I'd admit the IBIS is nice but the 42mp still capability of the A7rII is something I'd happliy live without. For now...

[Andrew Reid]

Quotes like that annoy me as well because it's too easy when you have money rolling in left right and centre from professional video work to say "ah, throw that $12k 1D C aside I'll use it as a doorstop" and run out and spend another $3.5k on an A7R II. Way too easy!

However for the majority of people $3500 is a lot of money and significantly more than a GH4 or NX1 and thus the deliberation needs to be more critical.

When the Samsung NX1 came out Cinema5D basically rubbished it. The reason? Bad rolling shutter! Yet here with the S35 crop mode of the A7R II we have what looks like potentially even worse rolling shutter problems and they are practically mute about that... do I detect a Sony bias?

Well I have seen Cinema5D's guys operate first hand myself, at trade shows such as Photokina and they do know a few Sony people and get cameras early. It is too easy to recommend something when you have the camera literally dumped on your desk by a PR company as well.

I was offered a trip to the US to shoot with the A7R II by Sony and I turned them down. I was offered a demo unit by the US PR agency Sony had organising the A7R II marketing and I turned them down. On Wednesday 5th August I will walk into a shop, hand over my hard earned cash for the A7R II and if it is rubbish I will say so and take it back for a refund.

The only reason I am going anywhere near Sony and their PR agents is that they have organised an interesting shoot the day before on Tuesday and it is a chance to get some decent footage. Most of what I say to the Sony people there will be about how it can be improved and what the most glaring flaws are, because that is what I regard as feedback... saying "wow buy buy buy" does not have any useful substance to it, it is pure hype.

And so back to the topic...

It's an open secret Sony want you to buy more than one camera!

That's one reason why the launches are staggered like this. If the A7S II and A7R II came out on the same day you would be able to compare them and select the best ONE.

As it is, this week if you need an internally recording 4K full frame mirrorless camera and can't wait for a mystery to unfold 6 months from now then you are obligated to buy the A7R II.

Personally this is the approach I am taking because there's always eBay to shift gear whenever you like, whenever it is superseded.

I am sure the A7S II will push video to even greater heights, 4K 60p and at least 250fps 1080p, much less rolling shutter, better low light, etc.

it's a guess though and the A7R II is a guarantee of quality right now.

However there's always the danger with waiting for the next model and upgrading in that you never appreciate what is right in front of you.

[wolf33d]

Andrew, 

And what if it is true?

what if Sony gives you a a7rii like cinema 5d and you think wow it's fantastic and more than a7s, wouldn't you say it? 

I mean, we can split on those guys cause they got the camera early and give us a test, and split on them cause they say the camera is fantastic. It might just be that....

 

[Gregormannschaft]

Andrew, 

And what if it is true?

what if Sony gives you a a7rii like cinema 5d and you think wow it's fantastic and more than a7s, wouldn't you say it? 

I mean, we can split on those guys cause they got the camera early and give us a test, and split on them cause they say the camera is fantastic. It might just be that....

 

I'm sure he'd admit it, but he's right, Cinema 5D should point out the glaring issues that still exist with rolling shutter. Everything else does look quite lovely though. I haven't touched my Canon 5D Mk.3 in close to a year and would love a camera that takes nice stills and great video. I'm always choosing between the A7s and 5D before I head out and the A7s wins because video is so much better.

Is it worth selling? Probably...right? Stupid to have a camera worth around 2000 euros just sitting there.

And a question for Andrew, or anyone else in Berlin/Germany, is there a good shop online or physical that is worth looking at for purchasing cameras?

 

[Liam]

based on the price alone, I think we all can agree that telling the entirety of this this forum to buy the a7rii and sell everything else would be dumb... there will be shortcomings of the a7rii, and there will sometimes just be a difference of taste. just not helpful in a review to say this is the only camera you should acknowledge the existence of anymore

[DBounce]

I'm sure he'd admit it, but he's right, Cinema 5D should point out the glaring issues that still exist with rolling shutter. Everything else does look quite lovely though. I haven't touched my Canon 5D Mk.3 in close to a year and would love a camera that takes nice stills and great video. I'm always choosing between the A7s and 5D before I head out and the A7s wins because video is so much better.
Is it worth selling? Probably...right? Stupid to have a camera worth around 2000 euros just sitting there.

And a question for Andrew, or anyone else in Berlin/Germany, is there a good shop online or physical that is worth looking at for purchasing cameras?

 

You can currently buy a new A7S on ebay for $1799... Prices are dropping, and will continue to do so as word gets out just how capable the A7Rii is for video.

[Gregormannschaft]

You can currently buy a new A7S on ebay for $1799... Prices are dropping, and will continue to do so as word gets out just how capable the A7Rii is for video.

I meant selling the 5D Mark III....which still goes for around 2000 here on eBay. I could sell both and have some cash to spare to invest.

[DBounce]

Quotes like that annoy me as well because it's too easy when you have money rolling in left right and centre from professional video work to say "ah, throw that $12k 1D C aside I'll use it as a doorstop" and run out and spend another $3.5k on an A7R II. Way too easy!

However for the majority of people $3500 is a lot of money and significantly more than a GH4 or NX1 and thus the deliberation needs to be more critical.

When the Samsung NX1 came out Cinema5D basically rubbished it. The reason? Bad rolling shutter! Yet here with the S35 crop mode of the A7R II we have what looks like potentially even worse rolling shutter problems and they are practically mute about that... do I detect a Sony bias?

Well I have seen Cinema5D's guys operate first hand myself, at trade shows such as Photokina and they do know a few Sony people and get cameras early. It is too easy to recommend something when you have the camera literally dumped on your desk by a PR company as well.

I was offered a trip to the US to shoot with the A7R II by Sony and I turned them down. I was offered a demo unit by the US PR agency Sony had organising the A7R II marketing and I turned them down. On Wednesday 5th August I will walk into a shop, hand over my hard earned cash for the A7R II and if it is rubbish I will say so and take it back for a refund.

The only reason I am going anywhere near Sony and their PR agents is that they have organised an interesting shoot the day before on Tuesday and it is a chance to get some decent footage. Most of what I say to the Sony people there will be about how it can be improved and what the most glaring flaws are, because that is what I regard as feedback... saying "wow buy buy buy" does not have any useful substance to it, it is pure hype.

And so back to the topic...

It's an open secret Sony want you to buy more than one camera!

That's one reason why the launches are staggered like this. If the A7S II and A7R II came out on the same day you would be able to compare them and select the best ONE.

As it is, this week if you need an internally recording 4K full frame mirrorless camera and can't wait for a mystery to unfold 6 months from now then you are obligated to buy the A7R II.

Personally this is the approach I am taking because there's always eBay to shift gear whenever you like, whenever it is superseded.

I am sure the A7S II will push video to even greater heights, 4K 60p and at least 250fps 1080p, much less rolling shutter, better low light, etc.

it's a guess though and the A7R II is a guarantee of quality right now.

However there's always the danger with waiting for the next model and upgrading in that you never appreciate what is right in front of you.

Weren't you recently singing praise for the 1DC used for $3500-$4000? And now in light of the new A7Rii, would not such a purchase be in question?

[docmoore]

Comes down to S-Log2 color ... anything like the A7s and this camera will be a disappointment. Way too much time to correct even with LUTS

if you expect anything close to reality. Now if it is great - or mimics Arri color or C300 color then it will get my attention. However lack of 10bit

is still a major deficit especially at these prices. 

 

Oh would have favored a more professional power input - LEMO at a minimum as it is small enough to fit on the camera. Also locking HDMI output cable.

 

Bob

[Mattias Burling]

Weren't you recently singing praise for the 1DC used for $3500-$4000? And now in light of the new A7Rii, would not such a purchase be in question?

I found a used 1dc for $2600 today. If I was buying a large frame 4k shooter today I would have a tough time passing on that over the a7rii.

(Im having a hard time passing even if I'm not looking for any new camera  )

[Gregormannschaft]

I found a used 1dc for $2600 today. If I was buying a large frame 4k shooter today I would have a tough time passing on that over the a7rii.

(Im having a hard time passing even if I'm not looking for any new camera  )

Where are you finding these ridiculous bargains?!

[Mattias Burling]

Where are you finding these ridiculous bargains?!

Its a skill to be honest. Know where to look, how to look and have a neck for negotiations

And most of all, constently look. Not just every day, all day. People don't see the best deals because they sell quickly

[docmoore]

Comes down to S-Log2 color ... anything like the A7s and this camera will be a disappointment. Way too much time to correct even with LUTS

if you expect anything close to reality. Now if it is great - or mimics Arri color or C300 color then it will get my attention. However lack of 10bit

is still a major deficit especially at these prices. 

 

Oh would have favored a more professional power input - LEMO at a minimum as it is small enough to fit on the camera. Also locking HDMI output cable.

 

Bob

Time for an update and a retraction....

Seems like my A7s decided to change my memory setting and I was shooting not S-Log2 S Gamut and applying a LUT 

was very wrong ... after an hour working through the issue today I have no complaints about color .... just keep an eye on

the camera when it is booted up.

Probably messed things up when I updated the firmware ... which only affected the startup time.

A wasted weekend ... now better with the knowledge that I can find decent color.

As an aside ... was shooting mid-day Texas heat with my CD Odyssey 7Q+ in a screen shade protector ... reached internal

60C with warnings after an hour ... very hot to the touch.

 

Bob

[ntblowz]

Its a skill to be honest. Know where to look, how to look and have a neck for negotiations

And most of all, constently look. Not just every day, all day. People don't see the best deals because they sell quickly

lol true!

I got a 5d2 (only 3000 shutter count) and 16-35mm F2.8 for only $850 3 years ago.. on evilbay, that was while we are on break for shooting and I was browsing the site on my phone lol, the guy just put it up few minutes ago.

My 2 A7s cost me $1450each (bought from different site), that was way before the A7R II announcement, with local Sony warranty.

Hence why I don't buy new staff anymore, you save a lots of money on 2nd hand, all it take is patient and time. (constantly looking 24/7 lol)

[Jonesy Jones]

The upgrades needed to make the A7Sii a decidedly better video camera than the A7Rii, would also make it serious competition for the much more expensive FS7.

What the A7ii won't have is 10bit, and therefore not a competitor to the fs7. And for me virtually nothing else matters. I just abhor banding. 

[jax_rox]

 for me virtually nothing else matters. I just abhor banding. 

Yeah, I mean there's no way you can tell a good story when you've got minimal amounts of banding, is there...?

An update to the A7s will happen. I would wager that it will be an A7sII - I doubt it's going to be a new product that updates/replaces it. I imagine the A7sII will have an extra two stops of sensitivity, allowing for ISO 1.6million, and/or 720 @ 240p / 1080 @ 120p / 4k @ 60p.

Plenty extra, and in no real way competing with the FS7..