Sony A7R II Review - Part 1 - Summoning the devil

[User]

Does anyone happen to have the A7R II and the SMAD-P3 wireless RX adapter? If so do you know if it is possible to use this adapter with the 3.5mm input as channel 2? 

I don't expect it to be possible since it hasn't with any of the previous cameras. It would be super nice though since it would make a really compact two ch. setup.

 

Thanks!

 

I asked a similar question here and failed to get any answer, so I‘m guessing it‘s not possible. http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/8600-sony-a7s-audio/

[Damphousse]

The sad part is nobody seems to be truly objective anymore, you can spin things any way you want. Canon (especially the hallowed, beyond-any-reproach-of-any-kind 1Dc) can have any number of flaws, but you can always take refuge with two words: "color science" (whatever that is). And be sure to ignore what you can do in post, it don't matter. Kind of like the $8K Leica M Monochrom buyer ignoring all objective comparisons and calling it worth the price because it's just "magical" (whatever that is).

And it's not just with cameras. Last night we had a Republican debates with 10 candidates, want to know who the winner was? Any of them, depends on who you ask. Heck, we don't know anything for sure anymore, from if there is a multiverse to if OJ was guilty to if a7RII or NX1 can render color as well as 1Dc. Reminds me of what Jack Nicholsen tells Diane Keaton in Something's Gotta Give: "I've never lied to you. I've always told you some version of the truth."

I disagree.  What the poster you quoted said about Canon making cameras "that work" is objectively true.  I've been saying it for years.  When everyone raved about Blackmagic and cursed Canon I pointed out that Canon wouldn't destroy it's brand equity by releasing bugging cameras missing a bunch of essential features half a year or more late.  The worst thing I've encountered with Canon is the autofocus on the Rebels in live view mode.  And obviously on their mid to upper end cameras they made fixing that a huge priority.

I am saddened by this review because it makes is almost certain that we won't see 4k from Canon in smaller lower end bodies for quite some time.  Knowing Canon they simply will not push out a product that is going to shut down frequently or have a five minute recording limit due to heat (RX100IV, RX10II asian version).  Personally I could live with a five minute recording limit.  I've never recorded longer than that.  But that doesn't seem to be the Canon way.  I'm glad Sony is pushing the envelope but you simply can't overlook serious issues like overheating and claim it's just subjective.

If you want to learn more watch 60 seconds of this video to learn what the Canon philosophy is all about...

 

[Sekhar]

I disagree.  What the poster you quoted said about Canon making cameras "that work" is objectively true.  I've been saying it for years.  When everyone raved about Blackmagic and cursed Canon I pointed out that Canon wouldn't destroy it's brand equity by releasing bugging cameras missing a bunch of essential features half a year or more late.  The worst thing I've encountered with Canon is the autofocus on the Rebels in live view mode.  And obviously on their mid to upper end cameras they made fixing that a huge priority.

I am saddened by this review because it makes is almost certain that we won't see 4k from Canon in smaller lower end bodies for quite some time.  Knowing Canon they simply will not push out a product that is going to shut down frequently or have a five minute recording limit due to heat (RX100IV, RX10II asian version).  Personally I could live with a five minute recording limit.  I've never recorded longer than that.  But that doesn't seem to be the Canon way.  I'm glad Sony is pushing the envelope but you simply can't overlook serious issues like overheating and claim it's just subjective.

If you want to learn more watch 60 seconds of this video to learn what the Canon philosophy is all about..

Actually, you made my point. You can't just pick fuzzy stuff like "color science" and "it just works" (easiest things to defend because they are vague) and leave out the hard facts that don't fit. Are you saying Sony, Nikon, etc. don't "just work?" Did you forget Canon's recent messy sensor issue with t6i already? Nobody would say Canon is junk, all I'm asking is: let's give the full story and stay balanced.

[User]

 

I disagree.  What the poster you quoted said about Canon making cameras "that work" is objectively true.  I've been saying it for years.  When everyone raved about Blackmagic and cursed Canon I pointed out that Canon wouldn't destroy it's brand equity by releasing bugging cameras missing a bunch of essential features half a year or more late.  The worst thing I've encountered with Canon is the autofocus on the Rebels in live view mode.  And obviously on their mid to upper end cameras they made fixing that a huge priority.

I am saddened by this review because it makes is almost certain that we won't see 4k from Canon in smaller lower end bodies for quite some time.  Knowing Canon they simply will not push out a product that is going to shut down frequently or have a five minute recording limit due to heat (RX100IV, RX10II asian version).  Personally I could live with a five minute recording limit.  I've never recorded longer than that.  But that doesn't seem to be the Canon way.  I'm glad Sony is pushing the envelope but you simply can't overlook serious issues like overheating and claim it's just subjective.

If you want to learn more watch 60 seconds of this video to learn what the Canon philosophy is all about...

 

I don't know ya know. For me, aside from all else in this whole world... I would have really love‘d it if that old Canon dude would have given those two sissies a massive karate chop. Really.

[eleison]

 

 

 

Unfortunately for Canon, people on vacation no longer buy shoulder size video camera to visit Paris, Rome, or New York.  Not going to happen.  Sony is catering to the largest and most profitable segment right now - the main stream.  They will try to make video enthusiasts and pro's happy, but between releasing a product that is small and convenient, but might overheat if used to the "max" vs building something like the c300 or the 1dc.. Sony knows who their masters are.  Just look at Sony's balance sheet as compared to Canon's.

While hard core video enthusiasts and pro's do matter... These people set the tone.  They do the reviews.  They create the buzz... But at the end of the day, the game is about how many camera's can companies ship out of the factory.  I think there is enough people who will love their cameras regardless of the faults that the A7rII will be a success for sony... The A7rII  is an advance consumer grade camera developed and marketed to the unwashed mashes; anything more is just a gift from sony to the pro's.  Sony is making pro quality video accessible to the masses.  It might NOT be 100% reliable.. it might not be 100% pro-grade, but the masses don't care... and if the quality is good enough, some pro's will "work around" the disadvantageous.

Times are a changing.  "Pro level video" equipment is slowly being obsoleted by "consumer grade video" equipment...  Chainsaws used to be "pro-level".. now you can buy "consumer" grade chainsaws at your local home improvement big box store that can do 99% of what a "pro-level" can do for cheap.... because of this now most people, even the pro's, buy their chainsaws at the big box stores.

[AndersM]

I asked a similar question here and failed to get any answer, so I‘m guessing it‘s not possible. http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/8600-sony-a7s-audio/

I have a a7s and a SMAD-P3 and have asked Sony about this. They said they might make a SMAD-P3 with a 3.5mm input for ch.2.

I can see that you would need more advanced audio circuitry to control two different inputs, but you could always hope.

[Mattias Burling]

But at the end of the day, the game is about how many camera's can companies ship out of the factory.

Exactly, and where I live Sony stands no chance against Canikon. No competition. Not yet at least. Consumers are very different in different regions. Here Sony would have to cut the cost of the a7rii in half for it to even make it to the shelves outside of the Internet. 

[eleison]

Exactly, and where I live Sony stands no chance against Canikon. No competition. Not yet at least. Consumers are very different in different regions. Here Sony would have to cut the cost of the a7rii in half for it to even make it to the shelves outside of the Internet. 

Regardless.  A7rii is not a pro-level camera like the c100 or the c300 or the 1dc...  Nevertheless, sales of the a7rII seems to be doing well (extremely well if you compare it to the cinema line).. A7rii is just like the A7s (also not a pro-level camera).  For every person who does a "serious movie" with the A7s, there are dozens that bought it with aspirations of being a film maker but ultimately, they just filmed their cats.... Or just bought it to film their vacation... or just took a bunch of baby pictures and then left it in their closet.

A lot of times, camera's like the a7s, a7rii, are "dream" cameras for the mass market.  It provides mass market people the ability to create "Hollywood" movies, but in real life, few do.  It's like people who buy rugged SUV's.  They spend a lot of money for the ability to perhaps offroad someday.. but ultimately, most just take their expensive suv's to the grocery store and back.  Nothing wrong with that.  Sony is full filling a desire (and making a profit at the same time).  The bad thing for canon is that as time marches on, these consumer cameras get better and better.. Ultimately, they will be good enough, or better than their pro-counterparts, that very few people will care for "pro cameras" anymore.  After all, how many people really care about the 1DC?  come on??? If they did, why is the 1dc gotten progressively cheaper?

[Mattias Burling]

For every person who does a "serious movie" with the A7s, there are dozens that bought it with aspirations of being a film maker but ultimately, they just filmed their cats.... Or just bought it to film their vacation... or just took a bunch of baby pictures and then left it in their closet.

 

Agreed, and for every person that did that with an A7s, 100 people did the same with a Canikon. 

[Emanuel]

Andrew, I will be straight with you:

I found your review perhaps passionate, but not exactly honest... I'm sorry. Superficial as well. It seems you have any beef against them. Sorry to be sincere here. I can even be wrong but nah, I don't know... You know I've defended you out there, so I guess my voice can be accepted as unbiased about you :-)

[docmoore]

Agreed, and for every person that did that with an A7s, 100 people did the same with a Canikon. 

And I just moved from 4K with A7s/CD Odyssey 7Q+ to a C100 Mk II ....

Today.

Looked at the FS7 and could not get the little plastic thing to focus the LCD ... too many little into the menu things.

Do not want a 20K C300 Mk II but was pleasantly surprised by the well thought out format of the C100 Mk II.

So my A7s Woodencamera Cage and mount and the CD Odyssey 7Q+ will be on the market.

I have owned Sony EX1R Red One Red Epic a huge number of MF Digital Cameras and have extensive experience 

in color correction but I will not continue to play the find the correct LUT for each damn clip and try to match them all.

Ideally an ARRI Amira would work ... but I will try to duplicate a simple color balanced film look from this camera.

Oh its fan is imperceptible in use but it does not overheat.

And a simple ATMOS Ninja Star will give me Prores.

The AF is delightful and it weighs not much more than the A7s and cage.

Easier to balance and I can start recording without setting off a seismic perturbation that takes 10 seconds to still in video.

Now when they give me 4K or 4.6K at this level for a moderate price I will be there.

Played with the Canon EOS Cinema lenses .... seem as well made as the Zeiss CP.2s

Overall a big day ... 

 

Bob

[Damphousse]

 Are you saying Sony, Nikon, etc. don't "just work?" Did you forget Canon's recent messy sensor issue with t6i already?

Never heard of any issue with the T6i.  I pretty much knew the T6i wouldn't be my next video camera before it was even announced and Andrew's review didn't make that possibility any more likely.  I checked out your link.  Just a heads up...

Basic design issue affecting 100% of cameras ≠ manufacturing issue that affects a minority of early cameras.

You are posting your question in a forum with several threads talking about Sony cameras overheating between 5-30mins.  Click around man.  It's not a secret.  As far as Nikon I never said anything about Nikon.  But from your link...

I believe my post pointed out a DESIGN flaw in older Canon rebels.  Not sure why you chose to ignore that.  Irreparable design flaws are much more of a concern than a manufacturing flaw affecting an isolated number of cameras on an early consumer product run... That is promptly fixed by the manufacturer free of charge.  Hit me back when Sony accepts every single RX10II, RX100IV, and A7RII and at no charges address all their overheating issues in a timely fashion free of charge.  Are you beginning to see the difference or do you need me to go on?

And by the way it was nice of you to leave out the fact I actually said I was capable of working around the 5 minute overheating limitation and was actually disappointed Canon, due to their business model, wouldn't implement something like that.  But I guess it wouldn't be a forum argument without blatantly ignore factual information in a person's post.

 

Unfortunately for Canon, people on vacation no longer buy shoulder size video camera to visit Paris, Rome, or New York.

Concrete thinking much?

That is one video about one camera that spawned dozens of threads of controversy.  And it is a bunch of PROS explaining Canon's corporate philosophy.  If you can't watch that, look at their product line top to bottom and see the difference between them and Blackmagic I can't help you.  I own a Blackmagic camera and a Canon camera and I'm considering a Sony camera.  Each of those companies has a different corporate philosophy.

Canon simply won't put out a camera pro or otherwise that overheats the way Sony cameras do.  That doesn't mean they are a perfect company and don't have other issues and that doesn't mean Sony is a bad company.  Understand?

[ntblowz]

RX10 II asia doesn't not have 5 minute flow, wonder why people still spreading false consider there already ASIAN user report in RX10 II that is 29minute mark.

[Damphousse]

RX10 II asia doesn't not have 5 minute flow, wonder why people still spreading false consider there already ASIAN user report in RX10 II that is 29minute mark.

Maybe because the Sony site says it...

http://www.sony.co.th/product/dsc-rx10m2?site=hp_en_TH_i

[Emanuel]

Here is a FF sample (I'd dare to say, just kiddin'... you've got a lemon, Andrew!):

 

 

[Sekhar]

Never heard of any issue with the T6i.  I pretty much knew the T6i wouldn't be my next video camera before it was even announced and Andrew's review didn't make that possibility any more likely.  I checked out your link.  Just a heads up...

Basic design issue affecting 100% of cameras ≠ manufacturing issue that affects a minority of early cameras.

You are posting your question in a forum with several threads talking about Sony cameras overheating between 5-30mins.  Click around man.  It's not a secret.  As far as Nikon I never said anything about Nikon.  But from your link...

I believe my post pointed out a DESIGN flaw in older Canon rebels.  Not sure why you chose to ignore that.  Irreparable design flaws are much more of a concern than a manufacturing flaw affecting an isolated number of cameras on an early consumer product run... That is promptly fixed by the manufacturer free of charge.  Hit me back when Sony accepts every single RX10II, RX100IV, and A7RII and at no charges address all their overheating issues in a timely fashion free of charge.  Are you beginning to see the difference or do you need me to go on?

And by the way it was nice of you to leave out the fact I actually said I was capable of working around the 5 minute overheating limitation and was actually disappointed Canon, due to their business model, wouldn't implement something like that.  But I guess it wouldn't be a forum argument without blatantly ignore factual information in a person's post.

Looks like I hit a nerve, mission accomplished I guess. Don't take it that badly man, my point wasn't about Canon per se (I have a 6D that I love for stills, and all but one of my lenses are Canon).

[Andrew Reid]

Great Review. Thanks Andrew for being one of the few truly impartial reviewer on internet. I couldn't care less about other advertorials review and article found on many website. They are a nothing compared to your unbiased work. Cheers

Thank you.

 

The A7RII is a powerhouse, but like all cameras its not without faults. Looking forward to comparisons with the other cameras mentioned in the article.

That sums it up well. No camera is perfect.

Knowledge, or another word for it, truth, is an asset. If you have that you will choose the right camera for the job and get good results out of anything if you know the limitations.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I can look past the little design flaws in the bodies and menus and hard colours of the Sony cameras, it is what it is and we work around it, but a camera that over heats ''consistently'' in minutes?

That's a first even for Sony. Makes the camera simply unusable for any client work, none, zero. This should have been a very clear spec on the A7rII so called ''4K'' feature. 

It's not the 4K feature on the GH4, NX1, FZ1000, 1DC, 

I am not going to mention Canon or any other rivals philosophy, this is a huge mistake in itself regardless of how reliable or not reliable Canons are. 

The marketing team seems to have a larger control on technical features design, because only a Marketing Manager would allow this "4K mode'', an engineer, never. 

Just make a bigger body for christ sake, A77, A99, VG900 size and give us for a 4K mode that works, who's telling these companies we like our camera smallest as possible? or at least, if you choose to go the 15-20min way with a small body, state that and don't market it as a normal 4K video camera. 

Talk about a deal-breaker. A term that rarely deserves what it's used for but here really, a deal breaker. 

 

[agolex]

I like it! Will probably make it a cheap pickup some time down the road.

[Emanuel]

I can look past the little design flaws in the bodies and menus and hard colours of the Sony cameras, it is what it is and we work around it, but a camera that over heats ''consistently'' in minutes?

That's a first even for Sony. Makes the camera simply unusable for any client work, none, zero. This should have been a very clear spec on the A7rII so called ''4K'' feature. 

It's not the 4K feature on the GH4, NX1, FZ1000, 1DC, 

I am not going to mention Canon or any other rivals philosophy, this is a huge mistake in itself regardless of how reliable or not reliable Canons are. 

The marketing team seems to have a larger control on technical features design, because only a Marketing Manager would allow this "4K mode'', an engineer, never. 

Just make a bigger body for christ sake, A77, A99, VG900 size and give us for a 4K mode that works, who's telling these companies we like our camera smallest as possible? or at least, if you choose to go the 15-20min way with a small body, state that and don't market it as a normal 4K video camera. 

Talk about a deal-breaker. A term that rarely deserves what it's used for but here really, a deal breaker. 

 

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?339161-Newsshooter-Sony-A7RII-overheats-and-shutdown-after-recording-4K-for-a-while&p=1986566799&viewfull=1#post1986566799

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reel