Cameras With 4:3 Anamorphic Mode?

[liamlumiere]

I know there are some die-hard anamorphic shooters that love the 3.55:1 aspect ratio but lets face it, it's a bit too wide for most things and I hate wasting the extra res by cropping plus framing can be hit or miss as you have to imagine what it'll look like when you eventually crop it. 

I know the GH4 has recently been given it and Ursa Mini will have it but what other options are there in this price bracket? I've looked around and there doesn't seem to be a lot, if any. Failing that, what's the chances that sony will give it's users this feature or Samsung?

[james d]

the best hope we've got is the usra 4.6k for super high quality anamorphic, going by BMD previous image offerings. 

[Hans Punk]

Many Canon DSLR's running ML raw video can shoot 4:3 aspect, the 5D3 can shoot the highest resolutions of 1600x1200 pixels in this specific aspect (continuously)....or higher resolutions in shorter 'bursts' - until the buffer/card tends to choke and stops the recording.

Still very pleasing results, as the Uncompressed 14bit raw with it's large dynamic range of the image more than make up for the 'lower' resolution compared to other modern cameras that support 4:3. The colour rendition has yet to still be beaten IMHO...I don't personally care for higher resolution if the dynamic range or 'look' is not there. Full frame Anamorphic is an incredible look, ML raw is still the cheapest way of getting this at a high quality with a tonne of latitude to grade with. 

5D3 not the most friendly of cams in terms of workflow, but perfect for short-form projects or when you don't mind considering your camera as a traditional film camera (i.e being selective in shooting to conserve stock)

Here is a couple random Vimeo finds, there are plenty out there to look at:

 

 

[liamlumiere]

Many Canon DSLR's running ML raw video can shoot 4:3 aspect, the 5D3 can shoot the highest resolutions of 1600x1200 pixels in this specific aspect
 

I got shot of my 5DIII back in January, got offered 2100€ for it and never looked back. I use a lot of adapted lenses and not all played well with the full frame 5D3, in particular Minolta Rokkors. There were problems with the 58 1.2 hitting the mirror when set to infinity so, it had to go. Picked up an a6000 and has performed brilliantly in the 5D3's absence. However, I've invested in some anamorphic adapters and would love to get the best from them.

I would consider picking up a 550d just to use the 4:3 ratio with Magic Lantern. It being super 35, I'd have no mirror issues with my lenses. Any experience with Magic Lantern and this cam?

 

[Hans Punk]

I got shot of my 5DIII back in January, got offered 2100€ for it and never looked back. I use a lot of adapted lenses and not all played well with the full frame 5D3, in particular Minolta Rokkors. There were problems with the 58 1.2 hitting the mirror when set to infinity so, it had to go. Picked up an a6000 and has performed brilliantly in the 5D3's absence. However, I've invested in some anamorphic adapters and would love to get the best from them.

I would consider picking up a 550d just to use the 4:3 ratio with Magic Lantern. It being super 35, I'd have no mirror issues with my lenses. Any experience with Magic Lantern and this cam?

 

Before I upgraded to 5D3, I had a 7D. I removed the mirror and mounted a PL converted OCT-18 Lomo Squarefront. That was necessary to allow that larger lens to seat further into the camera body. 

I believe Tito on this forum did the same to his 550d for his Lomo foton + square front.

If you can pick up a decently priced 550d or 7D, this is something that may be worth doing (depending on lens type you plan on using) - or just have a s35 raw camera that plays nice with more lenses. The 550d/7D has lower resolutions than 5D3 when running ML raw, but can still produce great results for a low price.

Again, if it's for short-form projects and experiments it is really great - if you need a camera that you can roll for a long time or has embedded audio in a small video file, not so much.

Current specs on ML enabled cameras can be found in the ML forum: http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum

 

[Julian]

Get a 50D instead of a 550D. The 550D is seriously bottlenecked by the SD card, the 50D can handle higher resolutions.
The 50D doesn't record audio though, so you have to do that externally.

7D is also a good option, but not as cheap as the 50D. 5D Mark II is even better, and pretty great combined with a VAF anti moire filter. Gets you close to 5D3 performance/resolutions.

My Canon EOS 50D is for sale by the way

Here you can see al the Canon cameras and their ML raw capabilities (it doesn't list 4:3 modes though):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgQ2MOkAZTFHdFFIcFp1d0R5TzVPTVJXOEVyUndteGc#gid=5

I shot this in 1280x960 24 fps, but I think you can get a bit higher. I don't know what are the 4:3 options in the recent ML builds.

 

[Hans Punk]

@Julian Great vid

Ah yes, my mistake...looks like 50D is still the best crop sensor choice for the money. (£200-250 in a recent BIN ebay search)

If 4k is not a deal breaker, and you would not mind a fairly clunky workflow...it seems like a no brainer, you get sooo much bang for your buck.

[liamlumiere]

@Julian @Hans Punk Thanks guys for your input. To be honest, after taking a trip over to the ML forums, it reminded me of when I I frequented there when I had a 7D and later 5D3 and to be honest, getting into that workflow again filled me with dread. Do you know if they offer the native h264 codec plus the 4:3 aspect ratio for something like the 50d/550d? If so I'd pick one up just to get used to shooting this way with anamorphic. I can't really bring along a 50d to a shoot and have to explain the complexities of alternative softwares to a client. Done it before and they weren't very impressed no matter how impressive it actually is.

I'm really looking for a mirrorless camera that has this feature implemented so hoping that Sony or Samsung or whoever will offer it. There just doesn't seem to be a lot out there at this price point. 

[samuel.cabral]

Even though i like the RAW from Canon cameras (especially because of the Dinamic Range and the colors), i'm very excited for this new camera.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2081787381/e1-camera-4k-uhd-interchangeable-lens-camera/comments

It's a 4k M4/3 camera with a Panasonic sensor.
The good news is that it will have 4:3 and even 1:1 aspect ratio in 24 fps and a possible desqueezed image via cellphone app.

The bad news is the codec that it's the old h264 (no prores), maximum of 11 stops of dinamic range and only 1080 via hdmi.

I think it will be a fun camera to use with a 3 axis gimbal and a small anamorphic adapter.... and for $700 bucks.

[Julian]

@liamlumiere Totally understand you for not wanting the hassle of ML raw. Not sure if you can change the aspect ratio with H264 - I think you can't.

Maybe the Samsung NX500 is an option. No 4:3 mode, but plenty of resolution, so no big deal when you have to crop a lot. Framing is still difficult, but you could tape some guide lines on the screen...

 

[Hans Punk]

@Julian @Hans Punk Thanks guys for your input. To be honest, after taking a trip over to the ML forums, it reminded me of when I I frequented there when I had a 7D and later 5D3 and to be honest, getting into that workflow again filled me with dread. Do you know if they offer the native h264 codec plus the 4:3 aspect ratio for something like the 50d/550d? If so I'd pick one up just to get used to shooting this way with anamorphic. I can't really bring along a 50d to a shoot and have to explain the complexities of alternative softwares to a client. Done it before and they weren't very impressed no matter how impressive it actually is.

I'm really looking for a mirrorless camera that has this feature implemented so hoping that Sony or Samsung or whoever will offer it. There just doesn't seem to be a lot out there at this price point. 

Ha Ha, 'the dread' is an accurate term...ML is not great if you need to show a client or crew things like real-time playback or need to roll for really long takes.

I kind of like that though, it reminds me of shooting film again and having to craft your shooting style more.

ML does not touch anything to do with .h264 regarding aspect ratio, so that rules them out for your needs I expect.

Shooting none 4:3 aspect in higher resolution - then center cropping is quite commonplace, True Detective does that and throws out a fair chunk of image either side to deliver 16x9, even though it's shot on Alexa XT Plus in 4:3 I believe.

I guess if you were to find a non 4:3 camera within budget that has plenty of resolution, cropping will be more painless...but as Julian states, in monitor frame lines or taping your own guides will have to worked out to give an accurate guide to your frame.

 

[Tito Ferradans]

Ha Ha, 'the dread' is an accurate term...ML is not great if you need to show a client or crew things like real-time playback or need to roll for really long takes.

I kind of like that though, it reminds me of shooting film again and having to craft your shooting style more.

ML does not touch anything to do with .h264 regarding aspect ratio, so that rules them out for your needs I expect.

Shooting none 4:3 aspect in higher resolution - then center cropping is quite commonplace, True Detective does that and throws out a fair chunk of image either side to deliver 16x9, even though it's shot on Alexa XT Plus in 4:3 I believe.

I guess if you were to find a non 4:3 camera within budget that has plenty of resolution, cropping will be more painless...but as Julian states, in monitor frame lines or taping your own guides will have to worked out to give an accurate guide to your frame.

 

I was about to write the exact same thing, but then you said it all and saved me the trouble of typing.

I don't dread the ML workflow, it's elaborate, yeah, but if you got someone on set to download the cards, extracting the dngs and playing them in premiere takes very little time. But, yeah, I know clients, and I'm not sure if I'd choose that either.

[liamlumiere]

I think my best bet may be Panasonic's new G7 and its 4K photo mode with choosable aspect ratios, 4:3 in this case. I've read it's equal in quality to the GH4 yet a third less in price. Very tempting indeed.

[Julian]

I wanted to suggest that too. People used it on the GH4 for anamorphic before the 4:3 video mode was introduced. It has limitations though, no audio I think? And not sure about bit rates. 

[liamlumiere]

I wanted to suggest that too. People used it on the GH4 for anamorphic before the 4:3 video mode was introduced. It has limitations though, no audio I think? And not sure about bit rates. 

Yeah, I've tried looking for info about the audio as it's primarily a photo mode but found nothing. No audio would be a deal breaker for me. Back to the drawing board, I'm afraid. 

[rook]

@Julian @Hans Punk Thanks guys for your input. To be honest, after taking a trip over to the ML forums, it reminded me of when I I frequented there when I had a 7D and later 5D3 and to be honest, getting into that workflow again filled me with dread...

I feel your pain on that front. The ML forums are convoluted, and downright nasty at times. The amount of times I've searched for an answer only to find a thread with someone asking the same question only to see the answer they got was a snarky "use the search button" type response. They have done amazing technical work, but the ML community is toxic.

[Grimor]

Any new camera on the market with 4:3 video mode and 4k ?

Its a 1 year threat, and i think that new models arrived.

Please give me an advice on a budget.

[BrooklynDan]

I feel like 4:3 anamorphic modes will really take off when full-frame cameras with higher-than-4K resolution become commonplace. Most of the cameras named in this thread might be able to record 4:3, but none-the-less, do not quite approach the proper sensor dimensions for anamorphic photography. 1.78:1 or 1.9:1-sized sensors are usually too short to reach that magical 18x24mm academy frame. Plus, you're always cropping a lot of resolution.

Which is why cameras like the Weapon and the new Panavision DXL intrigue me. Within the 8K sensor, you can crop out a 4:3-size frame for your anamorphic glass, and still have it be 18mm tall and 4K in resolution. Despite all the love for Arri's Super 35 4:3 sensor, I don't think any other manufacturer wants to go that route and I think that most will skip right ahead to full-frame sensors. I think that'll be fantastic for the anamorphic crowd.

[eris]

On 8/8/2015 at 9:19 AM, Hans Punk said:

Many Canon DSLR's running ML raw video can shoot 4:3 aspect, the 5D3 can shoot the highest resolutions of 1600x1200 pixels in this specific aspect (continuously)....or higher resolutions in shorter 'bursts' - until the buffer/card tends to choke and stops the recording.

Still very pleasing results, as the Uncompressed 14bit raw with it's large dynamic range of the image more than make up for the 'lower' resolution compared to other modern cameras that support 4:3. The colour rendition has yet to still be beaten IMHO...I don't personally care for higher resolution if the dynamic range or 'look' is not there. Full frame Anamorphic is an incredible look, ML raw is still the cheapest way of getting this at a high quality with a tonne of latitude to grade with. 

5D3 not the most friendly of cams in terms of workflow, but perfect for short-form projects or when you don't mind considering your camera as a traditional film camera (i.e being selective in shooting to conserve stock)

Here is a couple random Vimeo finds, there are plenty out there to look at:

 

 

Really nice color there.  (Song's not too bad and good singer, but the Casio piano makes my head ache

[silvertonesx24]

Kinefinity (both KineMini and KineMax) shoot 4:3.