Did Samsung just kill the A7rii?

[Mattias Burling]

Ah.  I'd suggest that if you're getting too much friction on your slider a trick to alleviate some of that jitteriness is to rotate the slider on the z-axis.  This effectively changes the center of gravity more to the balance point of your camera rig while not changing the direction of the slide.  Once the tension is lessened the slide should become nice and smooth.

For instance,  If I shoot a slider shot with a light 50mm prime on my 5D, then the weight of the camera is close to the center of the actual slider plate and it moves easily.  However, if I put on a big and heavy 24-70mm redband lens, then the balance point is farther away from the center and it can bind the slider plate.  A simple counter-angle adjustment moves that center point back to a more manageable useful spot.

Any of that make sense?

Anyway, that solution might cost less than buying a new camera body.  For production problems like this I like to recommend to change your technique, not the technology.

Sounds like something to look into, thanks for the tip

[neosushi]

Samsung gear IS known to be quite sturdy. Try that with a Sony.

i also dropped my on the concrete when shooting in a snowy new york... This thing is incredibly resistant.

[Emanuel]

Could you clarify, because I really don't get your point at all.

But if you mean what I think you mean my response is,

No, do absolutely not depend on After Effects. The whole "Fix it in post" strategy is and always been a bad strategy. If you want steady shots, just bring a tripod and be done with it.

Same goes for stabilisation, lens or in camera, it's nice to have. Sometimes very nice. But it's not gonna make your video for you. YOU need to work for it.

Making sloppy exposures, bad audio recordings, etc just to "fix it in post" is gonna bite you every time. 

Fix it in camera.  

Along this thread, there are several points to know (that post is only one of them) :

a) your troll thread or troll thread's title as benefit of doubt, once this can actually bring a good discussion on topic -- only because of that, other than that, your words posted here or outside where you use words such as "kill", "assassinated" seems more from someone to justify an option to not buy, to not use, whatever you feel when you've already spent your money in any piece of gear you don't wanna see outdated, than something you really believe or are perfectly sure of it;

b) overstatement on your focus such as stabilization in-camera is mandatory when we should all know it is not -- your examples of this post now don't fit and you have several other routes in order to get it and post-production is mere part of the process of filmmaking where footage is normally to be worked out not necessarily to be 100% fixed all the way long, it is not to be seen as tricky illusionism neither to be allergic to : )

c) you've even proved in that clip you posted -- I presume from an a7II if I am not wrong, IBIS can work perfectly fine for your needs and fitting to prove the pudding in the end, as same as a Ferrari won't be of any help if you're riding in a town where your speed limit was already reached.

[Sekhar]

a) your troll thread or troll thread's title as benefit of doubt, once this can actually bring a good discussion on topic -- only because of that, other than that, your words posted here or outside where you use words such as "kill", "assassinated" seems more from someone to justify an option to not buy, to not use, whatever you feel when you've already spent your money in any piece of gear you don't wanna see outdated, than something you really believe or are perfectly sure of it;

Uh, what?

[Mattias Burling]

Along this thread, there are several points to know (that post is only one of them) :

a) your troll thread or troll thread's title as benefit of doubt, once this can actually bring a good discussion on topic -- only because of that, other than that, your words posted here or outside where you use words such as "kill", "assassinated" seems more from someone to justify an option to not buy, to not use, whatever you feel when you've already spent your money in any piece of gear you don't wanna see outdated, than something you really believe or are perfectly sure of it;

b) overstatement on your focus such as stabilization in-camera is mandatory when we should all know it is not -- your examples of this post now don't fit and you have several other routes in order to get it and post-production is mere part of the process of filmmaking where footage is normally to be worked out not necessarily to be 100% fixed all the way long, it is not to be seen as tricky illusionism neither to be allergic to : )

c) you've even proved in that clip you posted -- I presume from an a7II if I am not wrong, IBIS can work perfectly fine for your needs and fitting to prove the pudding in the end, as same as a Ferrari won't be of any help if you're riding in a town where your speed limit was already reached.

yeah... Ok.

[Emanuel]

yeah... Ok.

I don't even follow you why such overstatement on "quality loss" on IBIS when you seemed so hopeful on the new a7RII a month ago. What have you changed your mind? To not buy the new Sony toy? Where are those samples with 'quality loss'? The typical Sony's IBIS 'jitters'? Because of that?

[Andrew Reid]

Didn't read the whole thread, can we recap something critical...

What is the crop with DIS like?

[Marco Tecno]

Crop is small. Way less than 1.5x. I'd say 1.25x (16mm is about 20mm fov with dis on).

[Geoff CB]

And....perhaps few noticed that, but now focus peaking can be turned always on during video...just set the focus peaking to a custom button and you're done. I tested it only with nx lenses, but I guess the same goes for legacy lenses.

Thank god! Incredible that Samsung keeps updating this camera, probably the best bang for buck camera you can buy.

[Mattias Burling]

I don't even follow you why such overstatement on "quality loss" on IBIS when you seemed so hopeful on the new a7RII a month ago. What have you changed your mind? To not buy the new Sony toy? Where are those samples with 'quality loss'? The typical Sony's IBIS 'jitters'? Because of that?

Ive never said there was any quality loss on the A7rII, why should it be.

It's just that if the Digital stabilisation in the NX1 doesn't have quality loss I see zero reasons to buy the A7rii over an NX1.

And, no, I wasn't hopeful about the A7rii at all, I was extremely skeptical from day one. That's why you won't find many comments by me in the threads about it.

And it was when looking at the price it got here in Sweden I decided to go for 16mm film instead.

[Emanuel]

Ive never said there was any quality loss on the A7rII, why should it be.

It's just that if the Digital stabilisation in the NX1 doesn't have quality loss I see zero reasons to buy the A7rii over an NX1.

And, no, I wasn't hopeful about the A7rii at all, I was extremely skeptical from day one. That's why you won't find many comments by me in the threads about it.

And it was when looking at the price it got here in Sweden I decided to go for 16mm film instead.

OK, I had hinted it when you wrote on avsforums:

"I haven't seen the results on a big screen yet. But if it truly isn't any quality loss it pretty much assassinated the A7rii.".

And when one month ago you posted on YouTube your a7II sample, I suppose, anticipating the upcoming a7RII you tagged in your youtube (promising) IBIS test:

"This is a real world test and focal length comparison of the Sony IBIS with vintage glass. Everything is handheld with no rig. The three axis IBIS you get with manual glass is imo really good.";

"And a better price.. oh wait ; ) Im sure it will be cool. Im a tiny bit, lets say, interested in what the high mp will do to the video but Im sure it will look awesome. Will keep a close eye n your tests. Have you preordered?".

https://www.youtube.com/all_comments?v=rR_LTsRT6JU

 

What has it changed since then...?

 

On both cameras stabilization tag, I don't think NX1's DIS beats a7RII's IBIS. Camera operator skills will overcome any extra help.

In any case, there's shooting life beyond a stabilized outcome with or without steady acquisition in-camera, on post, via any external accessory or even coordinating any or all of them when needed.

 

 

 

 

PS: I guess this test brought to the discussion (with the usual drawbacks depending on the subject, of course) speaks per se a bit on topic...

[bristo]

DIS works great with samsung NX lenses with OIS that have been updated with new lenses firmware like the 16-50S and 16-50 PZ

[Emanuel]

DIS works great with samsung NX lenses with OIS that have been updated with new lenses firmware like the 16-50S and 16-50 PZ

It is quite possible, some ingredients will work better than others...

[Mattias Burling]

 

"And a better price.. oh wait ; ) Im sure it will be cool. Im a tiny bit, lets say, interested in what the high mp will do to the video but Im sure it will look awesome. Will keep a close eye n your tests. Have you preordered?".

There you have it. Me being a tiny bit interested in what the high mp would do means, how badly it will screw up the image quality and how much moire there will be 

Skeptical then, even more skeptical now.

[Emanuel]

There you have it. Me being a tiny bit interested in what the high mp would do means, how badly it will screw up the image quality and how much moire there will be 

Skeptical then, even more skeptical now.

More skeptical now, why? Let me take a look on any samples which made you more skeptical now. I am interested to check any flaw of this camera. As far as I know, overheating is the one who could be a deal breaker if you're all in for long shots without external recording. Other than that?

PS: I even must say, FF has been a good surprise on such MP department... But, I am receptive to listen you guys. Andrew's arguments haven't convinced me not even a bit, as he already knows BTW :-)

[Mattias Burling]

More skeptical now, why? Let me take a look on any samples which made you more skeptical now. I am interested to check any flaw of this camera. As far as I know, overheating is the one who could be a deal breaker if you're all in for long shots without external recording. Other than that?

PS: I even must say, FF has been a good surprise on such MP department... But, I am receptive to listen you guys. Andrew's arguments haven't convinced me not even a bit, as he already knows BTW :-)

hey, if you don't see any of the problems, buy it. Must be the perfect camera. 

[Emanuel]

hey, if you don't see any of the problems, buy it. Must be the perfect camera. 

Hard to find one. But, it can be the less lousy one, sure : D Once we should always beware of all the flaws. Normally, no hard to find them. The whole thing is to satisfy certain needs. So, can you point me out all the flaws you've found which can't be possible to find a workaround?

 

I mean it seriously. When there's aliasing / moiré for example. Certain question should pop up immediately as mandatory: detail / sharpness settings?

Or it can't be considered acceptable to find the worse settings in order to get a certain outcome. As same as saying AF is hit and miss when Sony is trying to sell their own glass instead. Just an example. Like using the wrong setup and complain about flickering as for instance.

[Mattias Burling]

. So, can you point me out all the flaws you've found which can't be possible to find a workaround?

sorry, imo no such thing exist. 

If you ask me every single camera ever made is full of dealbreaking flaws. Every one. It's just a matter of deciding which you are willing to live with.

And while on the subject, no camera in the world is better than another. It's all down to what the user needs.

[Emanuel]

sorry, imo no such thing exist. 

If you ask me every single camera ever made is full of dealbreaking flaws. Every one. It's just a matter of deciding which you are willing to live with.

And while on the subject, no camera in the world is better than another. It's all down to what the user needs.

Right, as already said before.

And the work of the shooter is to beware of all flaws of his/her tool. That's the whole point to argue here. Hence my request on samples, but fair examples. Not opinion making based on what? Our own needs don't serve the needs of the other one. Moreover, lots of criticism I've ever seen is based on subjective and personal decisions to make or not make that investment. Without mention any other reason to not subscribe this or that business offer. Because all in life is business. Even private posting in public boards can hide or second any sort of POV, not shared with the interest or pocket of other potential buyer/user.

Let's get some objectivity over here. So, still waiting for samples from real world. Evidence. Not mere words easily typed on web.

On workarounds, their evaluation are part of our decision and shooter's work when decides to go ahead. Therefore, my plead on showing me the skeleton. Not valid to hide it in the cabinet!

[Mattias Burling]

Right, as already said before.

And the work of the shooter is to beware of all flaws of his/her tool. That's the whole point to argue here. Hence my request on samples, but fair examples. Not opinion making based on what? Our own needs don't serve the needs of the other one. Moreover, lots of criticism I've ever seen is based on subjective and personal decisions to make or not make that investment. Without mention any other reason to not subscribe this or that business offer. Because all in life is business. Even private posting in public boards can hide or second any sort of POV, not shared with the interest or pocket of other potential buyer/user.

Let's get some objectivity over here. So, still waiting for samples from real world. Evidence. Not mere words easily typed on web.

On workarounds, their evaluation are part of our decision and shooter's work when decides to go ahead. Therefore, my plead on showing me the skeleton. Not valid to hide it in the cabinet!

ok let's flip it, show me examples on why one should spend three times as much on the A7rII despite over heating etc.