First footage from Leica S (Typ 007) Medium Format

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Below, 

[agolex]

You guys don't really find that special aesthetic of this leica footage?

I do like the aesthetics very much, just not how it was filmed.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Some information out there: 

-Sensor size is large, 45mm width, larger than Pentax 645z, 

-It records 4K (4096x2160) 24p at 1.5x crop of the sensor (so APS-H-ish?)

-Strangely shoots 4:2:2 internally to CF or SD cards UHS-3 

-Even more strangely, at a massive 400mbps bitrate. Didn't think they'd push video that much. A very high end codec. 

-Outputs clean uncompressed HDMI 4:2:2 whilst recording internally.

-Has peaking and frame guidelines and 1:1 crop for focusing 

-Full HD 1080p uses the entire Medium Format width of the sensor, 45mm

-It's pixel-binned, without aliasing/moire and reportedly clean of bad downsampling artefacts from the 37.5mp sensor. 

-Uses all MF glass out there virtually, everything, Leica, Hasselblad, Mammiya, Contax, including a new drool-worthy 100mm f/2 Leica summicron. Practically it's a camera that has the best quality lenses in the world. This point the biggest selling factor for me to be honest. 

-Of course on the stills side 16bit raw 37mp, about D810 resolution but larger photosites. It's a CMOS and has high ISO performance of 645z league (which was close to a7s league), fastest MF camera (both shutter lag and 3.5fps continuous). And of course lecia infamous colour science in emphasized both in the filter RGB array an processing. 

*In short, in theory it's a beast of a camera with one of the highest quality images ever produced, so it's just a matter of how this image is translated into video mode. We'll see.

These are just specs and Specs mean nothing, it still might have something stupid and deal breaking like recording time, 40ms rolling shutter, 7 stops of DR rec709 profile, screwed up colours in video mode, horrible yellow highlight clipping, MF HD mode with horrible artefacts, no manual exposure,  you know the things that are never mentioned in spec sheets, and remember leica does not have video experience. The list is promising nonetheless, 

 

 

[photographer-at-large]

.....Uses all MF glass out there virtually, everything, Leica, Hasselblad, Mammiya, Contax, including a new drool-worthy 100mm f/2 Leica summicron. Practically it's a camera that has the best quality lenses in the world. This point the biggest selling factor for me to be honest. ........

Some Summicron 100mm goodness here:

http://www.jupitersnake.com/review/leica-s-typ-007-s-007/

[DBounce]

To my eyes the footage looks ok. But the price puts it in the company of better options.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Some Summicron 100mm goodness here:

http://www.jupitersnake.com/review/leica-s-typ-007-s-007/

This is not good. It's just image quality porn. 

Now I am getting this sudden urge to sell a car.

Especially since the video has the same look and colours as the stills there, identical aesthetic just smaller. What a look. So sharp, so creamy, colourful, deep in DR and tones, 3D, just stunning even under 3200 ISO shot there. The wide vistas with the 30-90mm on the 007 look otherworldy.

What the retail price of that 100mm F/2 Summicron in the USA? If it's as high as the 007 body perhaps the old lady's car has to go too. 

[photographer-at-large]

Some information out there: 

-Sensor size is large, 45mm width, larger than Pentax 645z, 

-It records 4K (4096x2160) 24p at 1.5x crop of the sensor (so APS-H-ish?)

......

LeicaS Typ007 Technical Data PDF says:

4K video in super 35 window mode

[photographer-at-large]

...

What the retail price of that 100mm F/2 Summicron in the USA? If it's as high as the 007 body perhaps the old lady's car has to go too. 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1077204-REG/leica_11056_summicron_s_100mm_f_2_asph.html

[sudopera]

 

-Even more strangely, at a massive 400mbps bitrate. Didn't think they'd push video that much. A very high end codec. 

I see the codec is MJPEG in MOV container, so basicaly the same formula as Canon 1Dc just 100mbps less in bitrate.

[richg101]

when sensor size is only a little bigger than full fraaem, I'd be inclined (forced due to not being able to afford the leica) to go full frame and an otus 85mm instead of this and the 100/2.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

@richg101 I thought you'd be the only one on this board all over this and probably even buy one, using Hasselblad/Leica/Mamyia/Contax Medium format glass  on a 45mm sensor wide

*Edit: What is the effective sensor size of your Forbes 70mm?  (I know it's s16 but I mean the effective size after glass conversion). This is probably tiny compared to that, its 45x30mm. 

The Leica is recording HD on a 45x25.3mm size image exactly at 16:9

A Fullframe is recording on a 36x20.3mm  size image exactly at 16:9 

A s35/APS-C is recording on a 25x14mm size  image give or take at 16:9

So it's not a small difference, FF is about 10mm wider than APS-C, and the Leica is about 10mm wider than FF. 

[Nikkor]

For the price that thing cost you can get real cinema lenses and a camera designed to film. The leica has terrible ergonomics and it's only 45mm, I mean it's nice but not 20,000$ nice.

Btw, Hasselblad lenses are great on 6x6, on small sensors they are "just ok".

[richg101]

@richg101 I thought you'd be the only one on this board all over this and probably even buy one, using Hasselblad/Leica/Mamyia/Contax Medium format glass  on a 45mm sensor wide

*Edit: What is the effective sensor size of your Forbes 70mm?  (I know it's s16 but I mean the effective size after glass conversion). This is probably tiny compared to that, its 45x30mm. 

The Leica is recording HD on a 45x25.3mm size image exactly at 16:9

A Fullframe is recording on a 36x20.3mm  size image exactly at 16:9 

A s35/APS-C is recording on a 25x14mm size  image give or take at 16:9

So it's not a small difference, FF is about 10mm wider than APS-C, and the Leica is about 10mm wider than FF.  

Forbes70 uses a 65mm x 36mm image pickup area, meaning lenses like hasselblad, mamiya, bronica, rollei 6000 etc lenses are used to their full capability.  (They have 80mm image circles to cover 6x6 (56mm x 56mm).  I'm currently working to take the image pickup to around 75mm wide, at 2.2:1 aspect ratio (cropping the vignette and losing vertical resolution), however this is only really viable when a suitable 4k head arrives.  (13 stops, low rolling shutter, 10bit or more).

The problem with this new Leica is that the sensor limits it's use to native lenses.  hassy, etc are pretty useless since no wide options are present - for wide you need 40mm on 56mm wide sensor.  with a 45mm wide sensor you end up with the hassy 40mm being a 'normal focal length'.

It's a bit like how when using ff glass on m4/3, everyone moans there are no wide and fast options.  

 

I guess my annoyance comes from the fact that every digital MF manufacture seems to be copping out with 'almost medium format' options, and then marketing them as medium format.  it would be like canon marketing aps-c as a replacement for 135mm film and never bothering to release a full frame dslr.  The only manufacturer of proper digital medium format systems went bust recently (DHW / Rolleiflex), exactly because of the bullshit marketing of the likes of this type of camera.  If people weren;t duped into thinking they were getting real medium format, the guys selling the real medium format stuff for the same price would not have gone bust.  there is now not one manufacturer making camera systems or lenses that fulfil true 56x56mm digital photography.  And the likes of phase one now know this so wont bother investing in full frame MF, and instead fulfil the new benchmark - 45mmx30mm (and smaller when the 16:9 crop happens)

 

 

[Nikkor]

The worst thing about the leica stuff is that the lenses are designed to cover 45x30, nothing more. The day true 645 becomes affordable as it once was all these 10.000$ lenses will be like canon apsc glass.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Forbes70 uses a 65mm x 36mm image pickup area, 

Wow, you have every reason to look down on the leica owning a Forbes 70mm! I really look forward to seeing other shooting from your invention with MF glass, shot in ProRes LT for example on the pocket so we'd be able to download and grade. 

65mm wide HD, that's insane. 

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

The main thing about Leica Cameras is that from what I have gathered is that it is about the look rather than the ergonomics.

It's about both. In fact ergonomics is one of the most significant element leica users admire, they are mechanical and as simple as possible with also a pleasing design. It's subjective but no ergonomics to leica users is key. 

Look at the stripped down to absolue basics approach, tactile dials for the exposure triangle, a WB and an AF keys. Fast, simple, easy, the firmware is the same + LCD panels.

It's an approach  many admire rather than a very customizable fully loaded approach. 

For me, I like something in-between, exactly like a Canon 5D body which I find the closest the manufacturer has got to the perfect design.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

Also, Ming Thein says Leica MF glass is the best of any system. Perfect from wide open--every lens. That combined with their custom sensors delivers a really unique look compared to other FF/"Medium Format" options. 

One thing has me confused, though. Why are people talking about "Leica's famous color science?" They've never been known for their color science. Ever. Their JPEGs have always sucked.