Help choosing a camera for doc and short films...

[mclandrum]

If you had $2,000-$2,500 USD to spend on a new camera to shoot a documentary and short films, and you needed it in the next few weeks, which would you choose and why? Also, what lenses would you recommend? (I would like to invest in glass for the EF lens mount.)

Here are the ones I am considering at the moment:

- Panasonic GH4 w/ Metabones Speed Booster Ultra 0.71x Adapter

- Samsung NX1

- Canon 5D Mark III w/ Magic Lantern Raw Video

Thank you for taking the time to respond!

[cantsin]

For documentary, consider a used Sony FS100 or a new Canon XC10, maybe in combination with an external recorder like the Ninja Star. 

I would absolutely not consider the 5D with Magic Lantern Raw for documentary work.

[dbp]

For docs I would say a used C100. They are getting really cheap now. Not sure if they are 2500$ cheap yet but it's worth a look.

[Mattias Burling]

A used FS100 is about $1500 around my parts. Could be a good options.

[cantsin]

Indeed, before I suggested the FS100 in the beginning of this thread, I had also seen it offered for about $/EUR 1500 second hand. The fact that it has XLR audio inputs makes it highly recommendable for documentary work.

"Citizen Four" was shot on an FS100, btw. 

[Flynn]

RX10ii

[mclandrum]

Thank you for the responses!

[TheRenaissanceMan]

BMPCC with a 12-35, 50mm 1.4 on an adapter, external battery, and a Zoom/Tascam recorder. 

[cantsin]

I own and love the BMPCC, but would recommend other cameras for classical documentary work. (The setup you propose does not include wide angle lenses, it is hard to use the BMPCC as a handheld cam, and for in-camera sound, without complex rigging, battery life is extremely short, it has issues with moiré and sensor grid patterns, and its sensor isn't a good performer under tungsten light or, especially, "dirty" available light from energy-saving bulbs and neon tubes.) Yet it gives a fantastic image and should be seriously considered for the likes of travel/nature documentaries and music videos.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I own and love the BMPCC, but would recommend other cameras for classical documentary work. (The setup you propose does not include wide angle lenses, it is hard to use the BMPCC as a handheld cam, and for in-camera sound, without complex rigging, battery life is extremely short, it has issues with moiré and sensor grid patterns, and its sensor isn't a good performer under tungsten light or, especially, "dirty" available light from energy-saving bulbs and neon tubes.) Yet it gives a fantastic image and should be seriously considered for the likes of travel/nature documentaries and music videos.

35mm is as wide as I've ever needed for doc work. The BMPCC handles great handheld with a stabilized lens like the 12-35. Add a 50mm for interviews and you're set. In-camera sound is simple--add a Zoom H1 or H4N and sync in post. Battery life can be mitigated with a cheap, portable external battery solution like this one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkwJFgyrF6k I've yet to have a problem with moire in ProRes (which is what you'd use for a doc), and the sensor grid pattern affected very few cameras. I recently did a short film with mine lit primarily by halogen work lamps and it looked excellent. Ditto flourescents--it takes a little prodding, but the codec handled it beautifully. 

I think it depends how the OP likes to work and what subject matter he tackles, but the BMPCC is absolutely a viable option for doc work. Also look at a used FS100, C100, or F3. All of them are great options.

[Dearborn]

What about an Olympus em5 ii with ef mount sigma f1.8 18-35mm & metabones speedbooster? That's 2,600, 2,750 with variable nd by tiffen. Actually it might be less cause that's for the xl metabones. You don't get 4k but you invested in a good ef lens for future camera bodies and a good run and gun stabilized body. Stabilization in post is a headache I'm finding especially for gh4 4k unless you have a really new and high end machine/software which will cost even more to invest in and still add time. Your light and stabilization needs with this setup would be mostly taken care of. With the gh4 your limited to tripod work, investing in more lighting and a3 axis stabilizer, which only some will support the heavier glass a metabones uses and again will put you way over budget. You're better off sticking to 1080p right now and if that's the case the em5ii will save you a lot of time at the sacrifice of some quality, I think it's mainly moire and aliasing that it's not great at from reading. If so you could get it and sell the body in a year and only be out a fifth of your total investment.

[cantsin]

Like most consumer cams, the Olympus suffers from a weak codec and sub-par audio: http://thedigitalstory.com/2015/03/external-mic-test-mod-em5-mark2.html

[Dearborn]

He could get a zoom h4 for 200 or h5 for 270 which it seems like alot of people do even for the gh4, then sync the audio in post. That's a lot easier than post stabilization of 4k. The video won't be as good perhaps but it will not be bad, at least from what I've seen on YouTube.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

I don't know what the EM-5 II's battery life is like in video mode, but it could actually be a nice documentary cam with a 12-40 and an H4N. Hell, you could even add an Atomos Ninja or BM Video Assist and get around the internal codec entirely.

[cantsin]

In any case, consider this article written by noone else than the editor of this site... http://www.eoshd.com/2015/03/olympus-e-m5-mark-ii-love-and-hate-at-first-sight/

[Dearborn]

Here's a bunch of reviews

em5 ii : https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=em5+ii+review

Sigma f1.8 18-35mm: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=sigma+18-35+f1.8+review+

 

[fuzzynormal]

I don't know what the EM-5 II's battery life is like in video mode, but it could actually be a nice documentary cam.

FWIW, I record audio directly to the EM5II camera using a Sennheiser wireless Ew100 system.  The preamps built into the camera are on par with a Zoom H1, I think.  Not great, but very useable if you take care.  Send a strong audio signal into the camera and it'll stay clean(ish).  You can knock down the floor and make it work.  If you want things to be REALLY quiet, you'd record on something different than a Zoom or an EM5II anyway, but I've been doing doc work following a comedian around as he does shows.  Lots of ambient noise so you never hear the preamp hiss.

That last EM5II video I posted on this site in a different thread was shot using the internal audio recorder of the camera for the interview, check it out for a listen if you want.  You can tell it's good, not great.  

Here's something else, combined with the HLD-8G Hand Grip with Headphone Jack and HLD-6P Battery Holder, you get "power on" battery hot-swap --as well as audio monitoring with headphones.  My 3rd party bats have been giving me at least 2 hours shooting with video and the fast battery change without power interruption is nice.

Seems to me that the EM5II is a under-rated video camera since the IQ is slightly behind the curve.  Everyone got all bothered when the camera was released because the image had limitations and isn't the best IQ on the market.  Big deal.  You work within the limitations and go do stuff, IMHO.

IQ is most definitely not the only thing you need to consider when doing docs.  Getting what unfolds in front of the lens and getting it well is paramount.  The 5-axis helps in this regard.  Shooting simple and easy to keep everything under control matters.  

So, small and efficient combined with 5-axis stabilization that allows for useful handheld shots?  Not bad and worth consideration.

I don't know exactly what you have planned, but I find unassuming gear works best for following people around in public during a documentary.  It's not intimidating.  Most people don't even realize you're shooting video.  You just look like a weird photographer hanging out with someone.  I'm using the EM5II to finish out a documentary shoot this summer and it's working for me.

As for the codec, I don't shy away from 8-bit on my doc-film work.  My last doc was shot on a Panasonic GM1and looks great as far as I'm concerned.

Another note:  The handgrip makes holding the camera feel really solid and reassuring.  Combined with older metal FD lenses with some serious mass, the set-up has a comfortable hefty feel that actually allows for better shooting, I think.  It's small but dense, which I like.

Finally, the moiré that's prevalent on the EM5II with modern lenses is almost nonexistent with older glass and a speed booster.  You could buy a full set of FAST cheap prime lenses for the cost of a brand new lens and significantly reduce one of the shortcomings of the camera.  Not a bad deal.

I'm not proselytizing for the EM5II per se, just saying it can work for you if you want it to.  All the other suggestions here are legit too.  

[fuzzynormal]

You know, one other thing I should mention since this is a site where there's a lot of discussion about color science and how it's incredibly highly valued... Well, I've been shooting a Canon 5DII and the EM5II side by side on the same projects for a few months now.  They match up quite well and can often look indistinguishable from each other depending on white balance and f-stop settings.  

[mclandrum]

Thanks again to everyone so far for taking the time to help.

[TheRenaissanceMan]

You know, one other thing I should mention since this is a site where there's a lot of discussion about color science and how it's incredibly highly valued... Well, I've been shooting a Canon 5DII and the EM5II side by side on the same projects for a few months now.  They match up quite well and can often look indistinguishable from each other depending on white balance and f-stop settings.  

Absolutely. For as much as Olympus color is hyped for stills, you'd think it would excite more of us video guys (who do nothing but bitch about color science). If you're talking lush color and beautiful skin tones, Olympus is where it's at--and produces much better files than Canon's DSLR H.264 garbage. 

Nice call with the battery grip hot swap. I do the same thing with my GH3 and it works a treat. 

You could use any audio recorder all. I just don't know enough about the subject to suggest anything besides Zoom or Tascam. 

8-bit isn't ideal imo, because you have to really nail your settings at capture compared to the more forgiving BMPCC; however, it's definitely doable if you're on the ball with your aperture/iso/focus. 

Using vintage primes with IBIS is the biggest benefit of shooting Olympus, but I feel like a nice zoom like the 12-40mm would be more ideal in unpredictable situations. Depends what you shoot, I suppose. A Canon FD 35-105 on a speedbooster might work better for stage performances, interviews, sports, and the like. 

How's the E-M5's peaking in video mode? How does the sensor/codec handle highlights? How much can you push the internal codec in post? How are the higher ISOs?