Shooting anamorphic for the first time? (help please!)

[Oliver Daniel]

I've never shot anamorphic, it's always been on my to-do list and the time has finally come. 

A client has specifically asked for "in-camera anamorphic lens flares like J.J Abrams", and they are very adamant they want this as the main visual feature, with a load of spotlights and LED striplights flashing and creating a sci-fi, distorted, visceral look. (the genre of music is dubstep mixed with metal!)

I don't have much time to sort this out (little over a week!), so I'm looking for advice regarding an anamorphic solution that "just works", as I don't want to risk a cumbersome fiddly DIY solution on this job. It's not so much the aesthetic you get from the squeeze, it's more the streaky organic flares that's required (although I do love a bit of squeezy vibes!). 

The camera is likely going to be the FS7 as high frame rates were agreed in the treatment. 

I've attached screen shots of the aesthetic I'm looking at. 

Any advice is much appreciated. 

[Rudolf]

I would shoot spherical and apply all that flares in AE. You can achive this look much easier with videocopilot stuff or similar... And if it has to be anamorphic - maybe the adapter from SLR magic is the one to go with as it produces blue flares and looks modern/"artificial" or clinic and is just easy to use I think.

[richg101]

Unfortunately I think you might do well to look at high quality flare overlays rather than risk shooting anamorphic last minute.  Unless you can budget for a nice and clean 35mm lomo squarefront and the required rigging.  There are not really any offerings apart from the SLR magic that flare similarly.  

 

On the flip side, and i don;t like plugging dso here personally, but I would actually suggest a trump58 and trump38 in combination with a speed booster.  a few nifty oval apertures, with the intention of overlaying the horizontal flares in post.

password= trump

 

Being in the UK, I could rent you a TRUMP body and attachments for a few days...

[Rudolf]

The Trump looks great! I would love to test this on day on some old super 8 stock I still have in the fridge. Is the Trump 38 on MIR 38 basis? The Helios is very long for S8.

[christrad]

One week won't be enough I'm afraid. Learning anamorphic techniques is a long process.

So why don't you share your job with someone who is familiar with anamorphic ?

Not me I live in France btw...

 

[Oliver Daniel]

I would shoot spherical and apply all that flares in AE. You can achive this look much easier with videocopilot stuff or similar... And if it has to be anamorphic - maybe the adapter from SLR magic is the one to go with as it produces blue flares and looks modern/"artificial" or clinic and is just easy to use I think.

Thanks Rudolf. 

I'm a heavy post-production guy and I've used this kind of approach in a subtle way before. I guess when I see an opportunity to do something a little different, I jump in all guns blazing.

However, I can't be taking too much risks with this one, it's a very important client who are playing big festivals around the world. The SLR Magic seems ok, if a little more boring than the vintage options. I'm more interested using the 2x version in 3k mode on the upcoming URSA Mini 4.6k, but that's another story. 

Looking like a post-job with the tight turnaround. 

[Bioskop.Inc]

There are various solutions:

- If you want to shoot anamorphic & get those blue flares on a budget, then pick up a cheap Singer 16D (think they are also branded as Sankor). It is dual focus, but you can work around that quite easily. If you couple it with a very flare driven taking lens, then you'll get the whole bundle of anamorphic flares, taking lens flares etc... It also has a very large rear element, so you can use with more lenses. Cost is about £150-ish (think there's one on ebay from UK ATM).

If not you could rent/buy a Blue Streak filter (they come in different streak sizes) & once put on a flare driven spherical lens, you'll get everything.

Or you just use a Flare driven taking lens & add the streaks in post.

Check this vid out at about the 0.50 for the blue flares from the Singer 16D (not mine, just found it).

 

[Oliver Daniel]

Unfortunately I think you might do well to look at high quality flare overlays rather than risk shooting anamorphic last minute.  Unless you can budget for a nice and clean 35mm lomo squarefront and the required rigging.  There are not really any offerings apart from the SLR magic that flare similarly.  

 

On the flip side, and i don;t like plugging dso here personally, but I would actually suggest a trump58 and trump38 in combination with a speed booster.  a few nifty oval apertures, with the intention of overlaying the horizontal flares in post.

password= trump

 

Being in the UK, I could rent you a TRUMP body and attachments for a few days...

I've wanted these TRUMP lenses ever since I discovered them, but haven't found the financial justification within the business to purchase yet (all things considered). I am finding that more clients are looking for a TRUMP look, so it might not be long now. I HAVE wanted to buy an FF58 or two but they are sold out. 

I'd love to try them out though - thank you for the offer. You can fire me over rental rates/logistics by PM if you want? 

There are various solutions:

- If you want to shoot anamorphic & get those blue flares on a budget, then pick up a cheap Singer 16D (think they are also branded as Sankor). It is dual focus, but you can work around that quite easily. If you couple it with a very flare driven taking lens, then you'll get the whole bundle of anamorphic flares, taking lens flares etc... It also has a very large rear element, so you can use with more lenses. Cost is about £150-ish (think there's one on ebay from UK ATM).

If not you could rent/buy a Blue Streak filter (they come in different streak sizes) & once put on a flare driven spherical lens, you'll get everything.

Or you just use a Flare driven taking lens & add the streaks in post.

Check this vid out at about the 0.50 for the blue flares from the Singer 16D (not mine, just found it).

 

Thanks for that suggestion.

I think I won't have enough time to fiddle with this, considering I'm also responsible for sorting out the neon-flashing lighting swell as all the visual references for the compositions. I'll probably fiddle with this stuff over time alongside some resources. 

In my lens disposal, I've got Helios 44-2 58mm,  Mir 1B 37mm, Nikon 43-86, Asahi Pentax 55mm - all flare/character heavy. Apart from Rich's superb TRUMP's, are there any other vintage options you'd recommend for full-on lens weirdness? 

[Rudolf]

I would beware in this case of the cheap double focus projection adapters. The only double focus anamorphics you can "really" use are the Moellers for 8 and 16mm small gauge. I had a Sankor and Kowa and they are good fun but you will not like to work with clamps and diy solutions for diopters and filters and fiddling with focus and maybe soft images. If it is important I would like to be safe. Another option could be the cinelux with FM or of course Rectilux? These paired with your afore mentioned taking lenses could do the job (maybe add Tair, jupiter...) Good luck and I would love to see the final video one day  

[Bioskop.Inc]

Thanks for that suggestion.

I think I won't have enough time to fiddle with this, considering I'm also responsible for sorting out the neon-flashing lighting swell as all the visual references for the compositions. I'll probably fiddle with this stuff over time alongside some resources. 

In my lens disposal, I've got Helios 44-2 58mm,  Mir 1B 37mm, Nikon 43-86, Asahi Pentax 55mm - all flare/character heavy. Apart from Rich's superb TRUMP's, are there any other vintage options you'd recommend for full-on lens weirdness? 

Have you thought about hiring a proper anamorphic for the day? Worth checking out rental places to see if budget will stretch?

These 5 pages of flare tests is a good resource:

https://vimeo.com/mkcine/videos/page:1/sort:date

Most vintage Russain lenses flare really well, just off the charts - but you've got the 2 really good ones.

The other Russain lens that is worth getting is the Helios 40-2 85mm f1.5; swirly bokeh like you've never seen & when stopped down has this star-like bokeh - if you like photography as well, its a must have lens. They sell brand new versions now, so you know you're getting a mint version (£200-300). Just Google "Helios 40-2 Bokeh" & you'll see what i mean.

If memory serves well, the Super-Takumars (is that what you meant by Ashai Pentax?) flare pretty nicely (not the SMC versions) with or without anamorphic attachments - 55mm f1.8 is always worth a pop (cheaper than the f1.4 version & just as good).

Meyer-Optik Gorlitz Trioplan (silver version) 100mm f2.8 - produces soap bubble bokeh, crazy shit! Really expensive ATM, if you can find one, but there is a Kickstarter campaign to start making them again:

http://petapixel.com/2015/07/10/trioplan-100mm-f2-8-rebirth-will-bring-soap-bubble-bokeh-to-modern-cameras/

[Oliver Daniel]

Have you thought about hiring a proper anamorphic for the day? Worth checking out rental places to see if budget will stretch?

These 5 pages of flare tests is a good resource:

https://vimeo.com/mkcine/videos/page:1/sort:date

Most vintage Russain lenses flare really well, just off the charts - but you've got the 2 really good ones.

The other Russain lens that is worth getting is the Helios 40-2 85mm f1.5; swirly bokeh like you've never seen & when stopped down has this star-like bokeh - if you like photography as well, its a must have lens. They sell brand new versions now, so you know you're getting a mint version (£200-300). Just Google "Helios 40-2 Bokeh" & you'll see what i mean.

If memory serves well, the Super-Takumars (is that what you meant by Ashai Pentax?) flare pretty nicely (not the SMC versions) with or without anamorphic attachments - 55mm f1.8 is always worth a pop (cheaper than the f1.4 version & just as good).

Meyer-Optik Gorlitz Trioplan (silver version) 100mm f2.8 - produces soap bubble bokeh, crazy shit! Really expensive ATM, if you can find one, but there is a Kickstarter campaign to start making them again:

http://petapixel.com/2015/07/10/trioplan-100mm-f2-8-rebirth-will-bring-soap-bubble-bokeh-to-modern-cameras/

 

Thanks for that!

With the anamorphic, I'm doing the effects in post. I'm curious to use it properly the very near future though.

Wow - that Helios is crazy. I have to get one of those. The bokeh is amazing. 

Also, the Meyer Optik looks beautiful. Is the attached screenshot the correct lens? (p.s what on earth is that weird thing sticking out the bottom?)

 

[Bioskop.Inc]

 

Thanks for that!

With the anamorphic, I'm doing the effects in post. I'm curious to use it properly the very near future though.

Wow - that Helios is crazy. I have to get one of those. The bokeh is amazing. 

Also, the Meyer Optik looks beautiful. Is the attached screenshot the correct lens? (p.s what on earth is that weird thing sticking out the bottom?)

Sensible to do it in post, especially considering your timescale - but give anamorphic a go at some point, as it really does have a different look (its not all flares).

Yep, the Helios really does produce the most unusual/amazing bokeh - the Trioplan is the only one that comes close to trumping it.

Meyer-Optik lenses are small gems & well worth having a look at - very similar to vintage Zeiss & i think that i prefer them (colour, contrast & bokeh).

Yes correct lens & that's an Exakta Mount - avoid like the plague. Also comes in M42 mount, which you can buy an adaptor for most other mounts (think Nikon is a problem).

There's a wealth of vintage lenses out there that a lot of people ignore, but are fantastic. It just seems most people want sterile sharp multi-coated modern lenses. The link below is an aladin's cave of vintage lenses - lots of pictures & the forum members are really helpful/nice (I think there's a 20/30 page thread on the different versions of the Helios 44 alone!)

http://forum.mflenses.com/

[Oliver Daniel]

Sensible to do it in post, especially considering your timescale - but give anamorphic a go at some point, as it really does have a different look (its not all flares).

Yep, the Helios really does produce the most unusual/amazing bokeh - the Trioplan is the only one that comes close to trumping it.

Meyer-Optik lenses are small gems & well worth having a look at - very similar to vintage Zeiss & i think that i prefer them (colour, contrast & bokeh).

Yes correct lens & that's an Exakta Mount - avoid like the plague. Also comes in M42 mount, which you can buy an adaptor for most other mounts (think Nikon is a problem).

There's a wealth of vintage lenses out there that a lot of people ignore, but are fantastic. It just seems most people want sterile sharp multi-coated modern lenses. The link below is an aladin's cave of vintage lenses - lots of pictures & the forum members are really helpful/nice (I think there's a 20/30 page thread on the different versions of the Helios 44 alone!)

http://forum.mflenses.com/

Cheers for all the info. 

Never heard of Exakta Mount, but I'll make sure to avoid it certainly. Guess it's not adaptable? 

i've been looking at Helios... and even though I have a 44-2 version of the 58mm, what's the difference between the models? Does the lens have a specific honeymoon period? Also wit the 40-2 85mm, seems like it's only the "new"version available on eBay, do these differ from the earlier version in any way? (I'm finding a lot of conflicting information online with Helios). 

I'm not to happy with my Helios and Mir 1B. The focus ring on the Helios is very tough, and the Mir-1B aperture ring feels too loose. I'm happy to look at other versions/models of the lenses so I can get them without these niggles. Generally I'm re-building the Russian set at all focal lengths with unique character in mind. It's quite brain blitzing knowing HOW to look. 

[Bioskop.Inc]

 

Cheers for all the info. 

Never heard of Exakta Mount, but I'll make sure to avoid it certainly. Guess it's not adaptable? 

i've been looking at Helios... and even though I have a 44-2 version of the 58mm, what's the difference between the models? Does the lens have a specific honeymoon period? Also wit the 40-2 85mm, seems like it's only the "new"version available on eBay, do these differ from the earlier version in any way? (I'm finding a lot of conflicting information online with Helios). 

I'm not to happy with my Helios and Mir 1B. The focus ring on the Helios is very tough, and the Mir-1B aperture ring feels too loose. I'm happy to look at other versions/models of the lenses so I can get them without these niggles. Generally I'm re-building the Russian set at all focal lengths with unique character in mind. It's quite brain blitzing knowing HOW to look. 

 

For the history & different versions of the Helios 44-2 its best to read this thread:

http://forum.mflenses.com/complete-list-of-helios-lenses-getting-closer-t26100,highlight,%2Bhelios+%2B442.html

They were made at different factories, at different times & its probably best to read the thread. The 44-2s are pre-set aperture, whilst the 44-Ms aren't.

If you've got a stiff focus ring, then these are the easiest lenses to take apart, re-grease & put back together - its child's play (there are online tutorials somewhere, just search). My copy of the Mir-1B is exactly the same, but it works - if its sharp, keep it; if not get a new one. Quality control on Russain lenses seems to have been very average/non-existant.

Helios 40-2: Just looked & there is an even newer version, news to me! 2 years ago they started selling old new stock lenses (that was what people said & they looked identical to the original) & now they have made a completely new version (i knew nothing about this). The Original version was M42 mount & when they re-released it, it came in 3 different mounts (M42, Nikon & Canon). This version is identical to the original (see link below):

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Helios-40-2-85mm-f-1-5-Russian-M42-mount-lens-for-Canon-EOS-cameras-NEW-/251984781540?hash=item3aab76a0e4

The new version is news to me & I have no idea whatsoever about it or its performance - did they mess with it in some way, who knows?!

My suggestion would be to stick with the original design - tried & tested. (I know someone who bought the new/old stock version, as in the link above & its exactly the same as mine).

EDIT: Sorry, just checked he bought an original old version. So look for an old one or plump for the one in the link i posted (its half the price that i paid 4/5 years ago!).

The only 2 lenses that you might not be aware of are:

Tair 11a 135mm f2.8 - pre-set 20 aperture blades (no real weirdness, but a great lens)

Mir-24 35mm f2 - shits all over the Mir-1B! However, it isn't a pre-set aperture & has very poor multi-coating (i.e. it still flares nicely, but not as mad as the 1B), but produces great images! Comes in M42 or Nikon mount (designated with an M or an N, respectively).

 

[Bioskop.Inc]

Wow! Did a bit of reading on the 2 newer versions of the Helios 40-2.

The brand new one, no one knows anything about it.

The new one, 2012, (identical in body shape to the original) no one seems sure at all about quality - is this a ploy to hike up the price of an Original?

[Bioskop.Inc]

Found 2 pieces that say the 2012 version is exactly the same as the original:

http://forum.mflenses.com/new-helios-40-2-from-us-vs-old-helios-from-russia-t64227.html

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/reviews/helios-40-2_85mm_f1-5_review.html

so it should look like this:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Helios-40-2-85mm-f-1-5-Russian-M42-mount-lens-for-Canon-EOS-cameras-NEW-/251984781540?hash=item3aab76a0e4

This looks like an original:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Helios-40-2-85-mm-f-1-5-MC-Lens-for-M42-screw-/231672592736?hash=item35f0c33960

 

 

[Hans Punk]

Wow! Did a bit of reading on the 2 newer versions of the Helios 40-2.

The brand new one, no one knows anything about it.

The new one, 2012, (identical in body shape to the original) no one seems sure at all about quality - is this a ploy to hike up the price of an Original?

Sure I read somewhere that at least one of the recent versions had multi-coating (but not labeled as such)...to help increase sharpness and contrast? Could be wrong on that :/

heard that the original 40's are a lucky dip in regards to quality at wide apertures (ugly fringing on contrast edges)

I was was going to grab a 40, but opted for the 'slightly' cheaper Cyclop version. To those unfamiliar, this was a version of the Helios 40 lens, without aperture (f1.5 fixed) for use with night intensifier scope for Russian military (has very rudimentary focus tube). I remounted to an M65 Helicoid and installed an oval aperture inside (courtesy of Rich Gale) , and it is an absolute beauty. Crazy sharp (as its effectively being stopped down on horizontal axis, but maintains virtually full height for f1.5 oval bokeh)