philip page Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I own a NX1 wit 16-50mm s and 85mm. I just recieved a budget for a doc. Im talking a more cinematic approach. been looking at the A7r2 or a A7s with Shogun or ninja Assassin. What are some recommendations???????? Also looking a Sigma Art Lens and Rokinon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kristoferman Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 If you're getting a shogun id go a7s over the rII . Cheaper, better low light, great FF and S35 modes.Just more info and real world testing all around Edit: rereading, I think that youre only considering the shogun for the a7s. Makes sense. Makes the question more difficult. You planning to shoot with a shoulder rig the whole time? Any gimball stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I own a NX1 wit 16-50mm s and 85mm. I just recieved a budget for a doc. Im talking a more cinematic approach. been looking at the A7r2 or a A7s with Shogun or ninja Assassin. What are some recommendations???????? Also looking a Sigma Art Lens and Rokinon. Hi Philip, I have the exact same dilemma as you : ) I still think some cinematic style is achievable with the NX1 though. But for now I think we lack some latitude for color grading : / (H265,+ no log ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 I still think some cinematic style is achievable with the NX1 though. But for now I think we lack some latitude for color grading : / (H265,+ no log )I'm curious about this sort of assertion. Not because higher latitudes are nice, but because viewers seldom got more than 12 stop of latitude from their cinema experiences during the first 95% of cinema history. "Cinema style," by my own experience, isn't about the end viewer getting a ton of DR.If you want to make a good documentary, DR and that sort of technical craftsmanship is a consideration yes, but I personally kind of think it should be farther down on the list of things to fret about. Content demands to be king when it comes to docs. How could it be otherwise? If there's no story, how do awesome visuals overcome that sort of shortcoming?When it comes to docs, I'd suggest being there and getting the coverage in the best way as possible for your project should be the main consideration. Of course, the OP needs to balance those sorts of considerations out with what he ultimately wants IQ-wise.Myself, I'd be perfectly content to shoot a doc on a NX1 with a 50mm lens. If I knew I was going into a bunch of low-light situations, I'd consider a Sony. I'd not worry about off-board video recording. I mean, any camera with some talent behind the shooting will easily offer a "cinema" experience. Xavier Plagaro Mussard, Kristoferman and iamoui 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bioskop.Inc Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 If you've got a budget to make a doc, then rent something that's going to make your life easier - don't buy.Something like a C100/300 would be an ideal choice, simple to use & has everything under the hood - the image from them can be plenty cinematic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo_sousa11 Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 You have one of the best video cameras around, and you think whats cripling you is the camera somehow ? The Nx1 is an incredible piece of gear, and it can produce indredible film look, or digital look if you prefer, have some time to test the camera out, I highly doubt you would do better with another camera. Get used to it, improve on it, its an amazing piece of gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I'm curious about this sort of assertion. Not because higher latitudes are nice, but because viewers seldom got more than 12 stop of latitude from their cinema experiences during the first 95% of cinema history. "Cinema style," by my own experience, isn't about the end viewer getting a ton of DR.If you want to make a good documentary, DR and that sort of technical craftsmanship is a consideration yes, but I personally kind of think it should be farther down on the list of things to fret about. Content demands to be king when it comes to docs. How could it be otherwise? If there's no story, how do awesome visuals overcome that sort of shortcoming?When it comes to docs, I'd suggest being there and getting the coverage in the best way as possible for your project should be the main consideration. Of course, the OP needs to balance those sorts of considerations out with what he ultimately wants IQ-wise.Myself, I'd be perfectly content to shoot a doc on a NX1 with a 50mm lens. If I knew I was going into a bunch of low-light situations, I'd consider a Sony. I'd not worry about off-board video recording. I mean, any camera with some talent behind the shooting will easily offer a "cinema" experience.Hi Fuzzynormal, I completely agree with you. It only matters what you are expecting from a camera that it should depend on the context of the shooting first. From my small personal experience, the NX1 does suffer from a low DR (its like 10 stops max), but also from the codec H265, which has to be transcoded first, and the breaks appart quite quickly (again IMHO) during the grading. However the NX1 offers very nice colors which are quite a good place to start.Now if you really want to go for a film look, I wouldn't necessarily go for a NX1. However, if you are going to have a lot of interviews, I would trust the NX1 skin colors better than Sony A7s Slog. TheRenaissanceMan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekhar Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Congrats on landing the budget for the doc! What's your project like? The a7 pair will work better for low light, but NX1 will definitely give you better colors (e.g., for nature work). Marco Tecno 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip page Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 If you're getting a shogun id go a7s over the rII . Cheaper, better low light, great FF and S35 modes.Just more info and real world testing all around Edit: rereading, I think that youre only considering the shogun for the a7s. Makes sense. Makes the question more difficult. You planning to shoot with a shoulder rig the whole time? Any gimball stuff?Most of my work is on a tripod may use gimbleYou have one of the best video cameras around, and you think whats cripling you is the camera somehow ? The Nx1 is an incredible piece of gear, and it can produce indredible film look, or digital look if you prefer, have some time to test the camera out, I highly doubt you would do better with another camera. Get used to it, improve on it, its an amazing piece of gear.Never said it was crippling. I just optimizing the budget I received. Hi Fuzzynormal, I completely agree with you. It only matters what you are expecting from a camera that it should depend on the context of the shooting first. From my small personal experience, the NX1 does suffer from a low DR (its like 10 stops max), but also from the codec H265, which has to be transcoded first, and the breaks appart quite quickly (again IMHO) during the grading. However the NX1 offers very nice colors which are quite a good place to start.Now if you really want to go for a film look, I wouldn't necessarily go for a NX1. However, if you are going to have a lot of interviews, I would trust the NX1 skin colors better than Sony A7s Slog. Thank you.... I plan on grading tough.. some test work I did at school I work with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7LlRUB1HA4 u can see the blocking in the blacks .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricardo_sousa11 Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Most of my work is on a tripod may use gimbleNever said it was crippling. I just optimizing the budget I received. Thank you.... I plan on grading tough.. some test work I did at school I work with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7LlRUB1HA4 u can see the blocking in the blacks ....But you already own the NX1, thats the most viable option. philip page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregormannschaft Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Most of my work is on a tripod may use gimbleNever said it was crippling. I just optimizing the budget I received. Thank you.... I plan on grading tough.. some test work I did at school I work with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7LlRUB1HA4 u can see the blocking in the blacks ....Beautiful grade on that footage, just needed a lav mic. Didn't see any blocking in the blacks, but it could just be the YouTube compression. philip page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Most of my work is on a tripod may use gimbleNever said it was crippling. I just optimizing the budget I received. Thank you.... I plan on grading tough.. some test work I did at school I work with https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7LlRUB1HA4 u can see the blocking in the blacks ....Yes there is some blocking in the blacks (on the shirt of the lady). Not sure if the blocking is due to youtube's conversion, or just because the blacks are a little bit underexposed. I tend to expose for the highlights with the NX1 cause the blacks zones are usually silky-nice. You had a challenging situation in terms of DR, with a person with a dark skin, wearing a very dark shirt/dress, standing in front of a window (highlights).Thats the kind of situation where you have 3 solutions: - Place the person facing the window instead of standing in front of it.- Light the person a little more to make up for the difference in terms of exposure.- Use a camera with a little more DR (like a A7S / A7R II) - but you could face a challenge in terms of skin tone during the grading - caused by s-log 2 - thus you'll maybe want to go with another color profile which will cause losing some DR... Or you just buy a red Dragon and make our lives easier haha ; ) philip page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip page Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 Thanks guys my stick with NX1. Has any body used a Shogun or any 4k recorder with a NX1? I heard early this year couldnt use much controls with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Thanks guys my stick with NX1. Has any body used a Shogun or any 4k recorder with a NX1? I heard early this year couldnt use much controls with it.Hey Philip, here is an example of result I got from the NX1 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DEXoZ1WC_AI did use a fantastic lens (Leica 50mm Summilux) but I think the NX1 can have some room for grading - you just have to make a lot of test before the shooting : deciding what kind of color / look you want to give to your footage, and then see how much the codec can support before it starts breaking out - and see if the locations for the shooting (landscapes, blue sky, portraits, etc.). philip page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philip page Posted September 8, 2015 Author Share Posted September 8, 2015 @neosushi these are NX1 results from a output to a shogun? or just a NX1 by itself..... If so did you have any issues with the shogun and NX1 combo? great test by the way... what was ur grading workflow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 @philip page That's just the NX1 by itself. Never tried the NX1 with the Shogun. Thanks a lot : ) The workflow is the following : NX1 (0-255) / iffmpeg, premiere pro (warp + Lut visioncolor M31 + Filmconvert 1DC profile). That's pretty much it, it's pretty basic coloring so far : ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neosushi Posted September 9, 2015 Share Posted September 9, 2015 Here is another grading experience. I had lots of issues with large areas of blue skies with the NX1's earlier firmwares. I'm not sure if the problem was my ND Filter creating some kind of "banding". I'm much happier with latest results I got. Lens used is the 85mm Samsung (no OIS :/ ). https://youtu.be/2COkbUi82zM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronFilm Posted September 10, 2015 Share Posted September 10, 2015 I think sticking with the Samsung NX1 is wise, keep the budget for elsewhere instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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