Canon announces development of 8K Cinema EOS camera and 120MP DSLR

[tupp]

A friend sent this to me (saying it's from a Convergent Design source not Canon, so not 100% legit)

http://i.imgur.com/R1lFpxA.jpg

Very interesting!  Great find!

 

Makes sense, nothing records 8K now

Well, back in July of 2013, NHK was compressing streams from their 8K Hi-Vision Camera in real time down to 85 Mbps, 8K , HEVC/H.265, so they probably used a single recorder for their 8K demos.

 

I would imagine that there are other "one-off" methods of recording 8K in existence, but we don't know about them yet.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

This was NHK's 8K encoding solution,

I'll take 4 shoguns/7Qs. To the NHK benefit, it was encoding to HEVC 8K, the Canon/Q7 solution is actually ProRes HQ.

 

Anyway from the looks of both the NHK//Canon solutions, 36mp at 30/60p is not really something we'll practically do as of yet. I'd rather see normal 4K/6K/larger format cameras with internal practical designs. 

I mean c'mon this is just showing off...

[Jimmy]

This is why I find the negativity about this very odd... The camera will clearly be a beast of a 2k/4k camera, with 8K as an external option.. (much like 4K is with the C500).

Just because it can do 8K doesn't mean it only does 8K.... It will likely be a very, very exciting 4K camera, with HS options not offered on the C300 II.

[Eduardo Portas]

I sold TVs for two years [....]

Like I said: 4K is nice, but it's way at the bottom of the priorities list.

I second this opinion. I will normally reduce my streaming resolution when watching videos online during peak hours (on a laptop they look fine at 480p with at least another window open side by side whilst I multi-task).

Very rarely will I stream 1080 content. At the moment, over here in Mexico, it is almost impossible to stream a 4K video, even with a powerful computer. Even then, I know I'm not getting the whole experience because my monitor is not 4K. 

So yes, I also believe other factors are paramount in producing a pleasing image and giving the impression of it being "sharp". 

[Emanuel]

I second this opinion. I will normally reduce my streaming resolution when watching videos online during peak hours (on a laptop they look fine at 480p with at least another window open side by side whilst I multi-task).

Very rarely will I stream 1080 content. At the moment, over here in Mexico, it is almost impossible to stream a 4K video, even with a powerful computer. Even then, I know I'm not getting the whole experience because my monitor is not 4K.

This confusion between acquisition and delivery is absolutely a swamp (this thing here walks in circles!)

"I was used to this usual mistake when in the early 90s, my video dealer was often trying to convince me that a VHS tape from video recording would equal the 260 lines of a hollywood blockbuster when downsampled.

Nyquist is mandatory reading"

http://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/9355-canon-announces-development-of-8k-cinema-eos-camera-and-120mp-dslr/?do=findComment&comment=105951

 

C) they don't see the difference (I don't believe for a second that you could on a youtube stream since no one else can).

D) they don't care (forum nerds like us are a minority).

   (...)

In an interview I heard recently with the head of tech at our largest network he was very clear.

"We don't talk about 4K at all. The difference would be so small compared to the investment. We focus on bitrate and color depth. Because that's going to look much sharper and clearer."

 

Yeah? Funny. So, they don't see any difference on higher resolution (actually, the most probable for bad of our best intentions), but they will care about color and latitude... LOL

I wonder how many of people HERE are used to really have average people out there to directly evaluate their final work... That's what comes to my mind now.

[tupp]

I'll take 4 shoguns/7Qs. To the NHK benefit, it was encoding to HEVC 8K, the Canon/Q7 solution is actually ProRes HQ.

Well, that NHK rack was one of the first HEVC encoders in the world, and it was encoding 8K as well, without FGPAs.  So, of course, it's not going to be efficient and miniaturized.  I have no idea if NHK has continued developing their system to make smaller, but the size of a first attempt is not the point.

 

 

Anyway from the looks of both the NHK//Canon solutions, 36mp at 30/60p is not really something we'll practically do as of yet.

I don't know... someone who really wanted to shoot 8K in 2013 (who had some funding) would probably not be hindered by the size of that first NHK encoder.

 

Keep in mind, when the 4K Dalsa Origin first appeared in 2003, it had a huge body that was tethered to a desktop computer and a raid array.  Likewise, Quadruplex SD video recorders which were used widely in the late 1950s and early 1960s were humongous, yet TV productions still seemed to shoot.

 

 

I'd rather see normal 4K/6K/larger format cameras with internal practical designs.

Me, too, but currently I am not very keen on dealing with anything past 4K.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Me, too, but currently I am not very keen on dealing with anything past 4K.

Neither am I. I would actually love all the 4K cameras more if they were 2.5K (all I'll ever need) with an extra stop of highlight insight, or an extra stop of lowlight noise.

Nothing looks worse than low DR 4K video (Note3/4/iphone), the lower HD-ish resolution with the limited clipped-ends looked good to me, but for some reason, 4K + lower than 9-8 DR is the most hideous sight to my retinas! 

[Jed I. Clampett]

When talking about love, you need trust, but trust is based on experience and lacking experience we have faith.

I am no longer in love with Canon.

I do think that the T2i, t3i, and eos-m cameras where all great bargains at one time, I have had many Canon point and shoot cameras with some manual controls.

I use older Canon products for video still. I think bricking the camera so you cannot put magic lantern on it is a great example that Canon's contempt for its customers, magic lantern was the major reason in recent years to buy Canon for filmaking.

I think for my use they provide as little as possible, for maximum price makes them a poor value, maybe the poorest value of all dslr choices at present.

There are simply other camera choices that provide so much more, with features I value, that are not bricked at prices I can afford.

I show little interest in new Canon products and have come to expect nothing from Canon that I can afford or interest me if I could afford.

Their name stands for I will not give you a product you will use, but try and price it beyond your means.

[Mattias Burling]

 

Yeah? Funny. So, they don't see any difference on higher resolution (actually, the most probable for bad of our best intentions), but they will care about color and latitude... LOL

I wonder how many of people HERE are used to really have average people out there to directly evaluate their final work... That's what comes to my mind now.

I just go by my experience as a TV-Producer in national and international broadcasting with endless sessions with focus groups, ratings, view counts and so on.
If you don't believe me, try for your self. Show your grandmother my 4K vs Upscaled HD video and see if she can tell the difference.
(she won't)

[Emanuel]

I just go by my experience as a TV-Producer in national and international broadcasting with endless sessions with focus groups, ratings, view counts and so on.If you don't believe me, try for your self. Show your grandmother my 4K vs Upscaled HD video and see if she can tell the difference.
(she won't)

No idea where you were 20 years ago (once I have no grandparents alive anymore, unfortunately, for your example -- no worries, I got the rhetorical intention behind of it, I guess you fit in a younger generation and both experiences follow accordingly) but exactly, as TV-producer in national and international broadcasting, that was my job in the business, then.

I can assure you "they" (our relatives, I bet yours too, so average viewer) they probably don't give a damn (more accurate to write like that) for a difference between 4K and native 1080p, but that's the real point. Because, neither they don't give a damn (even less, more likely) for better DR and color depth. Hence to tear off a bit, my analogy with the reality today in (ex-)communist regimes. Your point can also be mine, ours as geeks or filmmakers, but the way you all defend it as you know very well what they care about, it is pretty useless IMO.

And if you are so focused to give them what they want as they could care for any quality (they won't), I assure your egg ends fried in boiling water before you can see anything worthy to watch from there, because the final work will always be crap, it doesn't matter how pure our intentions are. For some reason, I've exchanged to bet in another screen size for the result of my efforts as producer, not because of audiences* but for the sake of my product. Where resolution counts -- to pair with everything else you/we like. For a better product, more chances and windows of distribution/exploitation, future proof (yeah, why to deny the obvious?) and so on.

 

* Nino Moretti (a hard-core communist : D or former one, no idea) has one very interesting on it when he answers in some interview more or less like this: "Audiences? What audience are we talking about?" So, here you have: What audience are you talking about?

[shooter]

I just go by my experience as a TV-Producer in national and international broadcasting with endless sessions with focus groups, ratings, view counts and so on.If you don't believe me, try for your self. Show your grandmother my 4K vs Upscaled HD video and see if she can tell the difference.
(she won't)

Mattias, Emanuel said the same example before. You misunderstood him. He just cares for resolution more than you.

[Eduardo Portas]

This confusion between acquisition and delivery is absolutely a swamp (this thing here walks in circles!)

[...]

Thanks, I'll give it a read.

I completely agree that better acquisition will improve your final delivery.

However, seeing that an enormous amount of streamed video is watched on tiny displays I struggle to find any differences at all between well done HD and 4K while having two or more windows open at the same time in my Mac or PC. 

I would propose that we are slowly veering towards a "YouTube aesthetic" versus a "Hollywood/BBC video aesthetic" were the latter is more pleasing for narrative visual work, instead of 4 minute clips of people ranting about why the new iPhone sucks.

Cheers.

 

[dhso22]

Looks like Canon has a working prototype of the 
120 megapixel DSLR. But after reading the source 
I'm linking to, more than a camera prototype I would
call it a testbed for the sensor.

Read more:
http://www.photographybay.com/2015/09/10/canons-120mp-dslr-produces-210mb-raw-files/

 

[Emanuel]

http://www.photographybay.com/2015/09/10/close-up-with-canons-cinema-eos-8k-camera-lens/

http://www.canonrumors.com/first-photo-of-the-cinema-eos-8k-camera/

 

 

Tomorrow and Friday, there will be Canon Expo... so let's be tuned, even though I believe the essential has already been told by them.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?340096-New-camera-announcements-from-Canon&p=1986574911&viewfull=1#post1986574911

(another thread on topic out there where I and Ebrahim, we've also participated)

 

[Nikkor]

Looks like Canon has a working prototype of the 
120 megapixel DSLR. But after reading the source 
I'm linking to, more than a camera prototype I would
call it a testbed for the sensor.

Read more:
http://www.photographybay.com/2015/09/10/canons-120mp-dslr-produces-210mb-raw-files/

 

Hmm, I have the feeling that camera is mirrorless.