Sony A7S II is out!

[austinchimp]

 

regarding my comment: whether this implementation of slog3 proves to improve color vs slog2 dramatically within this 8 bit output remains to be seen; ill be watching carefully. ive read a lot about slog3, but have never been convinced by my eyes at all. i want to believe.

 

For me S-Log3 and the S-Gamma.cine are the two things I'm most interested about in this camera, and the reason I'm probably going to upgrade from my A7s. The hardware seems to be similar as are the stills - I'm very disappointed it won't have phase detect focus as I was hoping to finally be able to use this camera for stills with my Canon lenses.

But if this tiny camera can push out an image with the same colour and feel as the FS7 in S-Log3 then it'll be huge for me. Colour was the reason I felt I had to invest in a 1DC as well, when really I want a small Sony body to cover all my needs.

[maxmizer]

Per me s-log3 e la S-Gamma.cine sono le due cose che più mi interessa circa in questa fotocamera, e la ragione per cui sto probabilmente andando a passare dalle mie A7s. L'hardware sembra essere simile come lo sono gli alambicchi - Sono molto deluso, non avrà fase di rilevare fuoco come speravo di essere finalmente in grado di utilizzare questa fotocamera per le fotografie con i miei obiettivi Canon.

Ma se questa piccola telecamera può spingere fuori un'immagine con lo stesso colore e sentire come la FS7 in S-log3 allora sarà enorme per me. Colore è stata la ragione per cui ho sentito che dovevo investire in un 1DC così, quando in realtà voglio un piccolo corpo di Sony per coprire tutte le mie esigenze.

If you have 8-bit systems, you can install all the log that you want, but you will always have 8-bit, 10-bit point was needed,  you can always correct it shortly with 8-bit color.

8 bit = 16,777,216 possible colors

10 bit = over a billion possible colors

[Emanuel]

and an rx10m2 as a slomo/b cam right??? lol  smh 

 

regarding my comment: whether this implementation of slog3 proves to improve color vs slog2 dramatically within this 8 bit output remains to be seen; ill be watching carefully. ive read a lot about slog3, but have never been convinced by my eyes at all. i want to believe.

show me~!

/im agnostic at best about both the cameras you mentioned as a hybrid shooter. the aesthetic of sensor size not withstanding, these cameras have NOT blown away a gh4 yet for video imo. they will soon enough if sony keeps running their own models out of business with rapid updates, buttt.... its about priorities

sony can barely write a press release. i work for a tech company *cough* that "gets" photography more than they do....... and im buying a note 5

imo theres some big ideas getting lost in the details

 

I agree with you on slog3 vs slog2 and partially on the rest. GH4, as for instance, it is a hell of a video camera (hybrid too, with a speedbooster, not even four-thirds can be an excuse anymore). The point is you can't think you can neglect post. Color comes from there too. Even glass has a role on your path, as you wish. Today, practically, any average camera can give you what you're looking for :-)

PS: Here are two examples of people who know what they're doing, already known for the most part of you but, once memory is short at times : D

 

[DBounce]

If you have 8-bit systems, you can install all the log that you want, but you will always have 8-bit, 10-bit point was needed,  you can always correct it shortly with 8-bit color.

8 bit = 16,777,216 possible colors

10 bit = over a billion possible colors

Well since most people can only perceive about 1 million colors and only one person has been discovered that had the wetware to perceive more, it might not matter.

[Don Kotlos]

Well since most people can only perceive about 1 million colors and only one person has been discovered that had the wetware to perceive more, it might not matter.

It matters when shooting log and grading. 

[paulraymaekers]

 

it matters a lot in situations where there is only one of the basic colours: for example under water, where only blue is left, (green and red gone)

you only have 8 bit blue left, and this give clear banding

10 bit is much better in this case

[Emanuel]

it matters a lot in situations where there is only one of the basic colours: for example under water, where only blue is left, (green and red gone)

you only have 8 bit blue left, and this give clear banding

10 bit is much better in this case

4:2:2 to begin with, even much more important.

[maxotics]

Well since most people can only perceive about 1 million colors and only one person has been discovered that had the wetware to perceive more, it might not matter.

There's a thing called brightness, luminance, dynamic range, what have you.  That bring perception to about 16 million "colors", still within 8 bits.  The sensor outputs 14 bits of information.  It's a long, complicated answer to why you would want 14 bits.  The best way to understand is by doing.  Take a high dynamic range shot with your DSLR in both RAW and JPG.  Then open in photoshop, whatever, and work to improve the highlights or shadows.  You will soon see what can be done with a RAW, 14-bit image, vs an 8 bit image.

As for the s-logs.  They are for specialized situations one should want to avoid in the first place.  There's no free lunch in data-bit land.

[hmcindie]

 

 

Checking ebay, I noticed that the 5d iii is selling for around $1,800 to $2,000... If you bought your 5diii "years ago" for that much, than yes, your 5diii is almost at the same value.  Somehow, I doubt you bought your 5diii for that much "yes ago".  Remember, a store can sell a new 5diii for any price it wants. 

? In Finland the retail price for the 5d III is still 2999 euros. That is THE EXACT same price as I bought it in 2012, 2999 euros. The retail price for A7s is now 1999 euros. When I bought the a7s it cost 2399 euros. That's a drop of 400 euros in a year from the retail price and that will definitely affect the used market.

I have no idea what your even arguing for or claiming that I'm lying.

 

can do a full pixel readout in 8.33ms (1000/120).  And I dont see why they would slow it down when recording 4k.

They are probably pixel binning and basically lying in the press release. The RX10 ii has more rolling shutter in 4k mode than in 120fps HD mode. There is definately pixel binning/skipping going on with the RX10 ii at 120fps HD, it just does it in very high quality.

[Emanuel]

? In Finland the retail price for the 5d III is still 2999 euros. That is THE EXACT same price as I bought it in 2012, 2999 euros. The retail price for A7s is now 1999 euros. When I bought the a7s it cost 2399 euros. That's a drop of 400 euros in a year from the retail price and that will definitely affect the used market.

I have no idea what your even arguing for or claiming that I'm lying.

 

They are probably pixel binning and basically lying in the press release. The RX10 ii has more rolling shutter in 4k mode than in 120fps HD mode. There is definately pixel binning/skipping going on with the RX10 ii at 120fps HD, it just does it in very high quality.

If their model of business fits with launching a new generation of their models each year (RED is upgrading ; ) in the same timeframe) each year and a half... what can we be expecting for? (nevertheless, RED cameras don't lose much value compared with; for some reason the company has been a success)

No, they aren't lying. There are many ways to kill fleas.

Sony is one of the most* valuable companies of the planet.

 

* to those who haven't noticed yet ;-)

[MattH]

 

 

They are probably pixel binning and basically lying in the press release. The RX10 ii has more rolling shutter in 4k mode than in 120fps HD mode. There is definately pixel binning/skipping going on with the RX10 ii at 120fps HD, it just does it in very high quality.

Maybe.  We'll have to wait and see.  Of course, the RX10 ii has to read out 17 mexapixels in a full 16:9 scan.  The A7S ii only has to do 10 megapixels at most. 8.3 if it does a native QHD crop.

[Oliver Daniel]

The A7S2 is max worth half of the A7R2.  Compared the A7S2 has lots of disadvantages, for example it's not a usable pro photo camera.  And there are no advantages, as for example anything above ISO 25.600 is not usable anyway.  Needing super extreme lowlight is as rare as using a Nikon D810a because of it's Astro features.  This makes the A7S2 a super specialist camera, with just one focal range.  The A7R2 does not only have 2 crop modes, with the internal clear zoom in S35 mode it will have an extended range using 15 to 8MP of the sensor.  You literally get a 400/2.8 for free with that camera if you own a 200/2.8, which makes the 42MP sensor fantastic not only for stills.  The combination of an A7R2 and RX100 IV is far better than anything else Sony has to offer.

The A7SII does seem like a great camera, although I do agree with you on some parts of your assessment. 

I think many reviews of the original camera were way off the mark concerning "clean low-light" at high ISO's. Even at ISO 12,800 I find it to be only just usable with very heavy post noise reduction. 

With additions like 4k, full HD 120fps, stabilisation and Slog3 - it's worth it for new buyers. For previous buyers, I'd hold on for the 3rd version (probs out in a year!). 

For professional video shooting, the FS5 seems like a much better proposition than all the A-series cameras. The extra money is worth it. 

[Emanuel]

The A7SII does seem like a great camera, although I do agree with you on some parts of your assessment. 

I think many reviews of the original camera were way off the mark concerning "clean low-light" at high ISO's. Even at ISO 12,800 I find it to be only just usable with very heavy post noise reduction. 

With additions like 4k, full HD 120fps, stabilisation and Slog3 - it's worth it for new buyers. For previous buyers, I'd hold on for the 3rd version (probs out in a year!). 

For professional video shooting, the FS5 seems like a much better proposition than all the A-series cameras. The extra money is worth it. 

It depends if your needs are compatible with such form factor. I concur on the high ISOs though. People love to bring a gun with them even when it is not needed. Makes them to feel stronger.

[sunyata]

If you're mainly interested in color that you can actually correct for sRGB display space, then the inclusion of S-Gamut3.Cine is likely the big news. 

"S-Gamut3.Cine is similar to negative film scan which was used for TV production, film out digital cinema. Color reproduction is designed slightly wider than DCI-P3 to provide ample room for grading. Thus manual grading for P3 becomes easier. S-Gamut3.Cine is more convenient to grade than S-Gamut3 and S-Gamut as camera digital negative. If you would like to apply print film emulation, please increase saturation to about 1.4."

Can never get enough plots. 

 

[Don Kotlos]

s-gamut3.Cine will definitely make color grading easier.  

Here is a nice documentation by Sony:

http://community.sony.com/sony/attachments/sony/large-sensor-camera-F5-F55/12359/2/TechnicalSummary_for_S-Gamut3Cine_S-Gamut3_S-Log3_V1_00.pdf

[MattH]

s-gamut3.Cine will definitely make color grading easier.  

Here is a nice documentation by Sony:

http://community.sony.com/sony/attachments/sony/large-sensor-camera-F5-F55/12359/2/TechnicalSummary_for_S-Gamut3Cine_S-Gamut3_S-Log3_V1_00.pdf

Wow!  I have no idea what any of that shit means.

[Shield3]

Overpriced becaus no any other competitor can do what it do~ 14 stops DR，120P FHD without banning ，body IS，super lowlight  and  Phase Detection AF on canon 、nikon lens！LOL！

Which camera are you talking about, the a7s2 or r2?  The r2 doesn't do 1080p120 and the a7s2 is contrast detect only.  It's "binning" by the way. 

[paulraymaekers]

4:2:2 to begin with, even much more important.

more than 10 bit versus 8 bit?

[kaylee]

The point is you can't think you can neglect post. Color comes from there too.

Im not talking about anything that comes from post. im talking about camera output. more on that later

Even glass has a role on your path, as you wish.

just talkin about in camera color rn tho

Today, practically, any average camera can give you what you're looking for :-)

nothing could be further from the truth. i want a high level of color accuracy for reproducing sets, costuming, and prop elements (which were very expensive and time consuming to make). i want nature to look like nature, i dont want to have to avoid shooting something as common as a F------ BLUE SKY for any reason, i want people to look awesome, and healthy, like actual living creatures with blood running through their veins

fyi im capable of being extremely critical of the alexa, everybodys favorite movie camera. im not a mark; i know what i want and im gonna keep bitching until i get it, thats my job as a consumer. after TONS of bitching from us all about slog2 on the a7s, heres slog3 on its successor –– no coincidence. anyway, i digress, just saying that youre a bit unclear on what im "looking for"

 

PS: Here are two examples of people who know what they're doing, already known for the most part of you but, once memory is short at times : D

 

these video reinforce my point: ive seen em, not impressed. at all. im not into retro luts or affected color grading, thats a fine option –– but i described above what i want from a digital video camera

but then again –– some feature filmmakers are going to map all their colors to teal and orange in their edit, and for them this shit doesnt rlly matter too much. slog2 is great for black and white work ive made some beautiful stuff

 

 

[maxmizer]

s-gamut3.Cine sarà sicuramente  rendere color grading più facile.  

I think as slog2, that the limitation to 8 bit it will see ...

I know that the issue is a mirror for larks...