Sony A7S II is out!

[Don Kotlos]

You said it is "not as conclusive as I would like to" based on apparent conclusive stuff. Actually, it is not (as my previous post allegations can detail).

At least, we can agree on the sum up, very well. But please don't tell me I don't much like sunyata's test. Even though, his failed introduction as me and other two posters were able to point out. When finally served for something worthy (you call it better, I would say complementary entry), it is welcome and taken as valid. Except it doesn't touch the other one nor the points observed. The only remark in your behalf is exactly the complementary nature of those other variables beyond the basics 8-bit vs 10-bit dichotomy. And when I see people to still pop up to underestimate 8-bit, I just see the need to reiterate it.

Here is another example only to show that the codec and bitrate play a big role for banding . So when comparing footage is always crucial to match these. 

Took a 10bit 4K GH4 sample, transcoded to 3 different 1080p, matched histograms (as close as I could) and graded with the same LUT. 

[Emanuel]

Here is another example only to show that the codec and bitrate play the biggest role for banding

Took a 10bit 4K GH4 sample, transcoded to 3 different 1080p, matched histograms and graded with the same LUT. 

Sure, I see banding is your main concern on your testing... Her neck is revealing!

[abds69]

don't talk about gh4 nor A7S 2 , same stuff, just enjoy this simple video recorded in Full HD prores HQ on the 4K mini Ursa (not the 4,6K 15 stops version, so let's imagine)...RED and Alexa or not so far this time...

 

[Emanuel]

I see you want they may pass 10-bit 4:2:2 and go straightforward skyrocketing : D Sony mirroless has one solid advantage, though. Before NAB next year. About 2 kilograms below ;-)

- E :-)

 

PS: Some of these preditions are hilarious but one I think we can pocketly dream about.

http://forum.blackmagicdesign.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=36195

[GregV]

I used the Sony AS7 in SLog2 for 1 year. I shot two 52-minutes documentaries for French TV. 4 months ago, colorists using Da Vinci Resolve (they are 3 in Chanel 2) all said "PLEASE stop using the Sony A7SII, the colors are horrible! Calibration is a headache for us because skin tones are infamous 9 times out of 10, and it seems it lacks colors in each image ... ". I love my A7SII because it is compact, convenient, and that images always appear Detailed me. I yielded to their request: this summer, I rented a Canon 1DC. And surprise, I seem to have discovered what a palette of deep colors! The tones are warm, bright and the result after calibration is staggering beauty. I sulked Canon for 2 years. So, I kept my A7S to film my kids and take some pictures sometimes. Ok Canon is a company that is not listening to its users. Ok Canon provides only the minimum. But Canon has realized that the most important, beyond the technical advances, it is the science of color.

[DBounce]

It's all in what you do with it...

[KarimNassar]

^ strong

[Luke Mason]

I used the Sony AS7 in SLog2 for 1 year. I shot two 52-minutes documentaries for French TV. 4 months ago, colorists using Da Vinci Resolve (they are 3 in Chanel 2) all said "PLEASE stop using the Sony A7SII, the colors are horrible! Calibration is a headache for us because skin tones are infamous 9 times out of 10, and it seems it lacks colors in each image ... ". I love my A7SII because it is compact, convenient, and that images always appear Detailed me. I yielded to their request: this summer, I rented a Canon 1DC. And surprise, I seem to have discovered what a palette of deep colors! The tones are warm, bright and the result after calibration is staggering beauty. I sulked Canon for 2 years. So, I kept my A7S to film my kids and take some pictures sometimes. Ok Canon is a company that is not listening to its users. Ok Canon provides only the minimum. But Canon has realized that the most important, beyond the technical advances, it is the science of color.

How do you calibrate the 1D C? Were you using CanonLog mainly?

[barefoot]

Disclaimer: Non-tech person here. 

I'm curious, what is lacking in the current hardware Sony A7R II / A7S II uses to enable internal 10bit 4:2:2 video, given that BMPCC has been able to do it for a while (granted with a smaller sensor)?

And can it be solved via firmware update?

[Don Kotlos]

I'm curious, what is lacking in the current hardware Sony A7R II / A7S II uses to enable internal 10bit 4:2:2 video, given that BMPCC has been able to do it for a while (granted with a smaller sensor)?

Will & an h.265 encoder chip. 

After seeing what Sony is capable of. SD cards can support ~240Mbps that 4K 10bit footage can conform to with the h.265 codec "easily". 

And can it be solved via firmware update?

Doubt it. For the solution I mentioned before, it will need dedicated hardware. 

P.S. Just saw that they will enable the uncompressed RAW is stills:

http://***URL removed***/articles/7665355870/sony-brings-uncompressed-raw-to-a7s-ii-and-a7r-ii

So if we keep complaining for 10bits we might see it someday . 

[Emanuel]

Will & an h.265 encoder chip. 

After seeing what Sony is capable of. SD cards can support ~240Mbps that 4K 10bit footage can conform to with the h.265 codec "easily". 

Doubt it. For the solution I mentioned before, it will need dedicated hardware. 

P.S. Just saw that they will enable the uncompressed RAW is stills:

http://***URL removed***/articles/7665355870/sony-brings-uncompressed-raw-to-a7s-ii-and-a7r-ii

So if we keep complaining for 10bits we might see it someday . 

Reason why the external 4:2:2 recording route is the best option available to avoid 8-bit banding. No matter the allergy of a bunch towards low bit depth. This will never happen without new hardware which depends on other variables. Go figure, when the new 4K in-camera from Sony overheats... Packaged in their mirrorless full frame form factor, versus the much smaller BMPCC's sensor size. Apart the fact, Samsung is the only one to enable H.265 acquisition for the simple reason they have no high-end to protect. That is, if we want a solution for real, get that one your hands can reach. If we want a realistic approach, of course, other than wishful thinking on forums.

[GregV]

Comment pensez-vous de calibrer le 1D C? Étiez-vous utilisez CanonLog principalement?

I use the Canon Log yes but I just know then they use Da Vinci Resolve for the colors. I prefer let this part of work to professionals technicians. 

[barefoot]

Will & an h.265 encoder chip. 

After seeing what Sony is capable of. SD cards can support ~240Mbps that 4K 10bit footage can conform to with the h.265 codec "easily". 

Doubt it. For the solution I mentioned before, it will need dedicated hardware. 

P.S. Just saw that they will enable the uncompressed RAW is stills:

http://***URL removed***/articles/7665355870/sony-brings-uncompressed-raw-to-a7s-ii-and-a7r-ii

So if we keep complaining for 10bits we might see it someday . 

Thanks for that explanation. =) Didn't know about the h.265 encoder chip. I'd been hoping they'd give us s-log3 with the next iteration of A7S (which surprisingly they did). Now I'm looking to the A7S II, with the promise of easier grading with S-log3/S-gamut3/Cine for run-and-gun shoots, for travel and documentary work I'm undertaking in a few months. Can't say I have much to complain (except battery life, like everyone else).

Question: How is there not a bigger file size difference between a 4k 10 bit Prores 422 HQ file out of Ursa mini (110 MB/s) and the Sony's own 4k 8 bit S-log 3 file (100MB/s)?

 

[TheRenaissanceMan]

The low compression of external recording is definitely a factor in why these 8/10-bit 4:2:2 recordings look so much better than what the camera writes to the SD card.

[Don Kotlos]

Question: How is there not a bigger file size difference between a 4k 10 bit Prores 422 HQ file out of Ursa mini (110 MB/s) and the Sony's own 4k 8 bit S-log 3 file (100MB/s)?

Sony's rate is in bits not bytes (b not B). So it records at 100Mbps which is 12.5MBps...

 

The low compression of external recording is definitely a factor in why these 8/10-bit 4:2:2 recordings look so much better than what the camera writes to the SD card.

Definitely. Low compression helps for less banding,  less blocking, more organic noise, better colors to name a few. If you can afford the extra size/weight then an external recorder is a must for the best footage quality. 

[barefoot]

Sony's rate is in bits not bytes (b not B). So it records at 100Mbps which is 12.5MBps...

Good god. That's a massive difference in size.

[Emanuel]

Good god. That's a massive difference in size.

For some reason, Ursa Mini is 3x the weight of the other... (and so on)

[Luke Mason]

I use the Canon Log yes but I just know then they use Da Vinci Resolve for the colors. I prefer let this part of work to professionals technicians. 

I didn't know I could speak French!

I assume they were using the color matching tool in Resolve (the one you shoot a colour chart)

[shooter]

Reason why the external 4:2:2 recording route is the best option available to avoid 8-bit banding. No matter the allergy of a bunch towards low bit depth. This will never happen without new hardware which depends on other variables. Go figure, when the new 4K in-camera from Sony overheats... Packaged in their mirrorless full frame form factor, versus the much smaller BMPCC's sensor size. Apart the fact, Samsung is the only one to enable H.265 acquisition for the simple reason they have no high-end to protect. That is, if we want a solution for real, get that one your hands can reach. If we want a realistic approach, of course, other than wishful thinking on forums.

Blackmagic is the only brand. The price is the small sensor. For Sony full frame without mirror, you cannot dream with bitrate.

These external recorders are the only answer.

[barefoot]

For some reason, Ursa Mini is 3x the weight of the other... (and so on)

The BMPCC misled me. =)