Christopher Nolan

[Germy1979]

Maybe I'm just in the shadows on the matter as I don't care about 4k. I know there are plenty of people out there that think it's important vs. 1080p. But right now Blu-ray is 1080p on my television and it's fine... Alas, being able to see the molecules on someone's cheek will be the groundbreaker.

I personally am still debating picking up a 5d Mark 2 with a Mosaic filter. I still think it looks good in the right hands. I won't see my BMC until May 2013 probably.... Lol

[FilmMan]

Digital vs Film

Getting your digital looking like film. Yeah, having a proper film look from digital is important depending upon your audience.

I've seen movies made on film look like they were shot on digital. I've seen digital shot movies and they looked like they were shot on film.

Went to the Dark Knight Rises and saw it on the AVX screen. I was paying close attention to the "color grading" alot of the time - especially the actor's eyes in certain scenes. People, who do grading, will know what I'm getting at. I found some parts of the movie looked like heavily graded digital and other parts true film. Remember, these are my eyes, and I did poke my cornea recently.

Storywise, I thought the first 30 to 45 minutes was simply amazing btw (very impressive). It spoiled me.

On the digital/film topic, I think a well shot movie on digital, and edited/color graded properly, will suffice the harshest critics.

[galenb]

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1343555294' post='14699']
The images of video cameras affordable for the common people have always been improved. S-VHS was better than VHS, Hi8 and DV were better, HDV was better. Many said about the HVX 200 (below 1k resolution with pixel shift), now the era of indie filmmakers was just around the corner. And it was. Timeless principle.

The con- and prosumers are too stupid to realize that they can't win the race if they accept the industry's rules. 4k? Haven't you heard (read andy lees posting above), that these resolution tags are buzzwords to fool the consumers? If your display was 4k and you watched your own 4k stuff on it, you didn't move closer, because the video lacked the true resolution in the second place. And it looked terrible in the first place, because it neither had color resolution nor color depth suitable for a BIG image.

You think all this will change with the BM? It will, but in incremental steps (including the fact that you have to monitor the better quality, did you think about that?). At the time every hobby dad has 4k raw, the aestethic standards of cinema will be higher again.

All this without mentioning makeup, constumes, good acting, good sets, good lighting, good sound design, music ...
[/quote]

Actually I did mention that. ;-) Thats kind of my whole point. Maybe I wasn't being clear. I don't think it matters if it's shot on film or digital. If you are a brilliant artist or a Hollywood shill, the movie you make will only look as good as your talent allows.


I feel like there is so much sarcasm in your replies that I can't tell what your stance is. Are you are saying that you think 4K matters or that is doesn't because what matters is color latitude? Or that digital will never be as good as film or that it's already there or... what? I think I may be misreading what you are saying. It's funny, when I started out I totally thought you would have agreed with me. :-D (silly me)

To my eyes, the main thing that I notice in the digital era that makes things look cold and digital to me is all the excessive grading and post work that goes into it. I'm pretty sure a lot of that just has to do with how the Hollywood machine works now a days. It's just what they're expected to do. once you have a DI, a lot of directors want to fuss over all the tiny things they were never able to control back in the days of film. Or it's just the workflow they've been taught. I think this happens regardless of weather it's shot on film or digital. I know this because I've seen perfectly shot footage turned to crap in post. I've worked in Post production for almost 20 years now. Mostly in VFX and animation but I've seen footage shot on set that comes to us looking horrible all the time regardless of what it was shot on.

Regarding 4K: All I was trying to say was that eventually someone will build a camera that will impress enough of the old school film guys. In order for that to happen it would have to be 4K and have as much latitude at as film. Not for me, for them. And I don't think that's long off. again, I'm not saying that's what it would take to impress me and I'm certainly not some kind of 4K zealot or anything. I happen to be very impressed with GH2 footage I've seen. In fact, the GH2 is the camera that made me think, "Okay, now I have no more excuses for not making my own films." But the GH2 certainly doesn't compete with film. But I don't really see that as the point though.

[kirk]

Instead of spending energy desperately trying to get digital to look like film, I hope and believe that creative filmmakers will be taking digital movies to new levels of visual expression impossible to reach with film. This is certainly happening in still photography.

After the glorious black and white film noir stuff, the color movies of the fifties and sixties were often critisized for their lack of visual beauty... things picked up eventually ;) I'm sure it will be quite wonderful to go to the cinema in twenty years too, and please, without having to wear stupid 3D glasses :blink:

[Axel]

[quote name='galenb' timestamp='1343596437' post='14709']I happen to be very impressed with GH2 footage I've seen. In fact, the GH2 is the camera that made me think, "Okay, now I have no more excuses for not making my own films." But the GH2 certainly doesn't compete with film. But I don't really see that as the point though.
[/quote]

That's what I think as well. The point is not, that Coppola, should he decide to shoot [i]Apocalypse Again[/i], would say, friends, we are going to the jungle, leave your cumbersome old film cameras at home, we put on a Lumix each and be done for. And whether Christopher Nolan should go on using film despite the high quality of our amateur equipment - is that our business?

Where our views diverge is in your transition we can't compete now [color=#ff0000]but[/color] soon:
[quote name='galenb' timestamp='1343551432' post='14696']Com'on people! :-D I really hope no one actually thinks film is going to be replaced by a $800 micro 4/3 camera? Okay so film kills GH2 but what about RED and Alexa? And really, we may not have the technology to make a movie that looks better then film right now [color=#ff0000]but just wait. In a few years...[/color]
[color=#222222][font='Helvetica Neue', Arial, Verdana, sans-serif][size=4][background=rgb(255, 255, 255)]

[/quote]

This is the excuse ("Okay, now I have no more excuses for not making my own films.") not to express ourselves using what we have. Hollywood is like an army with helicopters, napalm, predator drones and everything, all aimed at our hearts, and we have only smartphones. What is the smart thing to do? Use our phones as clubs against the enemy cause that's the appropriate answer?

Do I actually think that film is going to be replaced by an $800 Lumix? No, but my conclusion is not, give up, but stop caring about things you can't influence.

What Hollywood is not particularly good at, is expressing my, Axels, views.

I know how video looks on big screens. Neither do I dream of competing with [i]The Dark Knight[/i] aesthetically, nor do I care about Gotham.

Today all talk regarding poor video quality really is lamenting on a high comfort level. Never before were the means to deliver [i]sufficient[/i] quality for cinema so affordable. Don't look at the aesthetics too close.[/background][/size][/font][/color]

[HurtinMinorKey]

[quote name='Axel' timestamp='1343629636' post='14715']
Today all talk regarding poor video quality really is lamenting on a high comfort level. Never before were the means to deliver [i]sufficient[/i] quality for cinema so affordable. Don't look at the aesthetics too close.[/background][/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

And there's the rub: [b]sufficient quality[/b]. In fact, i'd say that cinematography has never been LESS important to the overall sucess of a film than it is today. Everthing is expected to look good, the margins between good and great are thinner than ever, and it's almost impossable to show people something they haven't seen before. Holding all other elements of production equal, 99% of your audience won't care(or be able to tell) what type of camera you used.

[Axel]

[quote name='HurtinMinorKey' timestamp='1343661696' post='14723']Everthing is expected to look good, the margins between good and great are thinner than ever, and[color=#ff0000] it's almost impossable to show people something they haven't seen before.[/color] Holding all other elements of production equal, 99% of your audience won't care(or be able to tell) what type of camera you used.
[/quote]

Paul Schrader once wrote an essay about "narrative exhaustion". This is not because every story has already been told. Every story [i]has[/i] been told - one way or other. Some say there are about 200 stories that are only varied, some say only 50. Those who read [i]The Golden Bough[/i] (or the storyteller's variation of it, [i]The Hero With A Thousand Faces[/i]) know, that it is only [i]one[/i].

There were no fresh themes, no controversies, no taboos in our lives? We wouldn't feel estranged by any social development, we were not afraid of anything anymore? We were not tired of the perpetual attempts to overwhelm us, our spirits were not numb to the point where we can't tell where the phantom pain comes from? We never felt anger, frustration or a sudden nameless urgency to fucking [i]do[/i] something? We are completely superimposable with John Doe (the guy the entertainment industry figures we must be), perfectly happy having chosen the blue pill? No abyss in our souls, no longing? Only scratching together all little money and all the rest of energy to pay the bribe for the doorman, that is: waiting forever for the day the doors open for us, but fearing the moment, because there might be nothing behind them?

Tell me that you don't go to the movies, munch nachos and think: Wow, to shoot a Batman film of my own would make all my dreams come true. Please tell me!